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Pontiac Forum: How to get water pump out
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  #11  
Old January 6th, 2019, 05:58 PM
pippo pippo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melsg5 View Post
did you have the engine at #1 TDC when you noticed the mark at 7:00?
Thanks, Mel, but for that I have to remove plug, and even not sure how to accurately determine. Dont you have to turn crankshaft for that Left /then right? Then how can you see inside cylinder? I heard you can put in a pencil and see when it stops/reaches highest point, but isnt that tricky?

Why would GM cut in those marks if they werent supposed to match up (on crank, on video)?
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  #12  
Old January 7th, 2019, 12:42 PM
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melsg5 melsg5 is offline
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you stated the bottom mark was at 7:00 where was the top mark, 12:00?
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  #13  
Old January 8th, 2019, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by melsg5 View Post
you stated the bottom mark was at 7:00 where was the top mark, 12:00?
Sorry for delay, Mel, but yes, the "top mark" is the cam sprocket. That has to be 12:00, per specifications, and according to manual. There is a very clear indicator/pointer for that.

But I didnt really mean that the "bottom mark" was at 7, I meant that the bottom pointer/mark at 6, but the crankshaft is at 7. I will get a youtube video which might help explain.......
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  #14  
Old January 8th, 2019, 07:49 PM
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Here it is again-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hbT5D7KUn0

View the video at 2:05-about 2:20, showing what I mean. The video shows the marks match up at 6:00.
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  #15  
Old January 9th, 2019, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pippo View Post
Sorry for delay, Mel, but yes, the "top mark" is the cam sprocket. That has to be 12:00, per specifications, and according to manual. There is a very clear indicator/pointer for that.

But I didnt really mean that the "bottom mark" was at 7, I meant that the bottom pointer/mark at 6, but the crankshaft is at 7. I will get a youtube video which might help explain.......
I know what the video shows but I still dont understand where your marks are located. Your sentence above seems to contradict itself,
" I meant that the bottom pointer/mark at 6, but the crankshaft is at 7." The bottom mark is the crankshaft. Please clearly state where the top camshaft mark is and where the bottom crankshaft mark is on your car. If the camshaft is not at 12:00 or the crankshaft is not at 6:00, with the belt removed turn them so they line up correctly. Please be aware that due to the different number of revolutions of the crankshaft versus the camshaft to fire all cylinders you can also have the camshaft showing 6:00 and the crankshaft showing 6:00. There are two complete rotations of the crankshaft per one complete rotation of the camshaft to fire all cylinders.
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  #16  
Old January 9th, 2019, 02:53 PM
Phil Number 3 Phil Number 3 is offline
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One of the anger points for me is the plastic timing belt cover must be installed to check the timing between crank and cam. That took several attempts to get it correct.
However, before changing the water pump, the engine would develop a miss when accelerating every few second and only when warm. Re timing the cam/crank cleared that up after over a year of replacing everything I thought COULD be the problem including the vacuum sensor in the air filter housing, ignition module, injector, plugs, plug wires, rotor and distributor cap, etc.
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  #17  
Old January 9th, 2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 92 Sunbird LE View Post
I know for a fact that the marks don't line up perfectly when the belt is installed. Can't remember which one is off....( Top or bottom) been a while since I did my belt... 2013 when I installed the used trans I brought when I moved here. Sorry can't help more...Doug in P.R.
Thanks, Doug, good to know just the same. I will be aware of that when I install belt......
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  #18  
Old January 9th, 2019, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melsg5 View Post
I know what the video shows but I still dont understand where your marks are located. Your sentence above seems to contradict itself,
" I meant that the bottom pointer/mark at 6, but the crankshaft is at 7." The bottom mark is the crankshaft. Please clearly state where the top camshaft mark is and where the bottom crankshaft mark is on your car. If the camshaft is not at 12:00 or the crankshaft is not at 6:00, with the belt removed turn them so they line up correctly. Please be aware that due to the different number of revolutions of the crankshaft versus the camshaft to fire all cylinders you can also have the camshaft showing 6:00 and the crankshaft showing 6:00. There are two complete rotations of the crankshaft per one complete rotation of the camshaft to fire all cylinders.
Thanks, Mel. I can understand why it sounds contradictory. Per your request to state clearly camshaft mark:

1) Cam SPROCKET mark (notch) points at 12:00 to rear cover plastic pointer.
2) Crankshaft mark (milled in U shaped mark on crank sprocket) is on crank, and currently has rotated to 7:00 position, as it was left there after removing timing belt.
3) That mark has to point to line up with matching milled U shaped point on bottom of engine, just above oil pan (see video, as I provided).

You say "the bottom mark is the crankshaft". No. The bottom mark(pointer) is on the ENGINE, not the flange of the crank sprocket. By "crank sprocket" I mean basically, the crank itself, as it is attached to a sprocket to receive timing belt teeth.

It is clear on that video. Please view it if you havent as it will be clear as day. Again, at about 2:05-2:20 into the video.

I am trying to put up a picture here but having difficulty. That picture will show 7:00 crank, and 6:00 pointer on engine.

Thanks for your continued patience with my challenging project.
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  #19  
Old January 9th, 2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Number 3 View Post
One of the anger points for me is the plastic timing belt cover must be installed to check the timing between crank and cam.
How is that, Phil? Crank and cam are, at least on my 1987 GT , 12:00 and 6:00. How would plastic cover matter? I am puzzled. Is there another type of pointer on those plastic covers of which I should be aware?

Rear or front plastic cover? Please explain as this could help.
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  #20  
Old January 9th, 2019, 08:11 PM
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The video clearly shows a mark on the crankshaft sprocket at 6:00 when the camshaft sprocket is at 12:00.
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