Rack and pinion replacement, advice to you

[btah]

I just finished replacing the rack and pinion on my son's 2003 Grand Am GT, 3.4L motor. I thought I would post some advice on a few things I ran into so someone can benefit from my experience.

The absolute first thing to do, don't even jack the car up, is make sure you can bust loose the main subframe bolt on the rear of the driver's side of the subframe. This is the bolt that goes through the control arm. If you can't get that bolt out, the rack isn't coming out unless you find some other way to drop that part of the subframe. If the driver's side comes out, great, now go do the passenger side. I have had need to drop the subframe on 3 different 2002 - 2004 Pontiacs and each time the passenger side main rear subframe bolt broke. It is something about how the bolt binds up in the metal bushing of the control arm (at least that is what I found). If both bolts came out then your job just got a lot easier. I should really phrase that as "less hard"...

If the driver's side subframe bolt came out, go ahead and jack it up and move on. I got by with the driver's side bolt out and prying the subframe down enough to fit a 2x4 between the subframe and the bottom of the car. The more the better though. Only having 1 1/2 inches of drop in the subframe required me to remove the entire rear transmission mount in order to get enough clearance to pull the rack out.

That was the main piece of advice. But here are a few other tidbits:
* don't start this on a Sunday afternoon if you need the car Monday morning. If you are thinking about doing this just because you have a little leak or something else that you can live with, then live with it.
* Every bolt gave me a hard time, prepare for that unless the car has been apart recently. I live in Chicago so rust is a huge issue with GMs from that era.
* I chose to go to a boneyard and pull a used one and take my chances (and yes, the passenger side subframe bolt broke...). It was a matter of $25 used versus $175 new.
* After you remove the bolts holding the sway bar to the subframe you will go after the two bolts holding the rack to the subframe. The bolt on the passenger side had a nut but the driver's side bolt threads into the rack. Now, AND PAY ATTENTION TO THIS, when you take the bolt off the passenger side there is a good chance the nut will drop. Right below the nut is a cutout in the subframe. Stuff something into that cutout BEFORE you remove the nut. Anything, a rag, paper towels, dead mouse, whatever, but do it. If you let the nut drop you will be trying to find a magnet to fish around in the cutout to hopefully catch the nut... Been there, done that, TWICE...
* No special tools need. Mostly 13mm, 15mm, and 18mm fasteners. An impact came in handy a few times but nothing required it. Ratchet wrenches would have came in handy but I don't have a set... 1/2" drive ratchet and sockets came in handy but I could have gotten by with 3/8" gear and a pipe to use as a breaker bar. A universal joint and extensions were used also.

The job itself really shouldn't be that bad if you can drop the subframe and don't have to deal with a lot of rust. There are not a lot of fasteners that need to come off. You just end up in awkward positions and if you have a few years on you it gets harder and harder...

This was the first time I changed a rack but I would say I have more automotive experience that a lot of DIYers and have a pretty good set of quality tools (and know how to use them) and I found the job pretty much a big PITA...

Hope this helps someone out.

 

[melsg5]

thanks for the post

 

[Schaeff58]

Thanks for the tips! So what was the issue that you had to take it out? Grew up north of Chi town, about an hour in McHenry County... yes rust was an issue!

 

[btah]

The low pressure hose decided to leak and I lost all the fluid. I had to drive it about 5 miles with no fluid to get it home. Previously I had a minor leak from where the steering shaft went into the rack. After I fixed the hose and got fluid back in there the fluid was pouring out from the steering shaft input as fast as I could put it in the reservoir.

______________________________

 

[Schaeff58]

That sucks, and a pain to be sure. I have a 2000 grand am, 2.4. Rusty should be the name of this car! It came from PA. I say rusty because I replaces every inch of tubing, brake, fuel etc that was under the car.... they all leaked... but after that its been good... I drove it for a while, a daughter in college and now second kid, son in college.. but yesterday he says he was making a turn, not sure which way left or right and her heard a loud pop or crack and then the steering was weird. Turn the wheel a lot, direction did not change... I drove it and it was bad.. cracking and then lots of leaking... put it on my little scissor lift, and I could see the tangs, or bolt brackets were busted off. Now how the hell does this happen? I am thinking its leaking because of the snapped off tangs, broke right into the housing etc... and I am thinking this replacement is similar to yours. Tranny was replaced about a year ago, so I am sure bolts will come out ok... It did a similar thing before, but not as bad... the bolts were loose that hold it to the subframe... You are correct, very hard to get anything in there to tighten the dr side bold to the rack.. but I got them tight and it was fine for a month or so... Could it have been cracked?

So Again, why do you think this would happen? Pot hole, or curb strike? I am sure I can replace it but dont want to do it again, if I can avoid it. !8 yr old son, like I said, drives it.. this could be the reason I know, and I may never know what exactly happened....

Thanks for the tips again... Ill post when I get this done...

 

[Schaeff58]

I have a friend that works at a junk yard.... asked him to get the steering rack for me. He called and said he had the whole subframe. He said a mechanic told him sometimes when the rack brakes off it can take a bracket from the sub frame with it... Any one ever hear of that? I looked at what I brought home and it seems there are only two places where the rack attaches....Hoping I dont have to do the whole subframe... this weekend will tell if I get to it.

 

[btah]

Yes, there are only two bolts holding the rack to the subframe. I am no expert but seeing the car is from the north I am going to guess it is a rust issue.

I am interested in knowing if the main subframe bolts came out for you. If they broke how did you go about getting the broken bolt out.

 

[Schaeff58]

Thanks for your reply. I will let you know how it goes.... I was not able to get on this last weekend.. but plan on getting it done this sat. Yes I am hoping the bolts come out w/o snapping off...

to be continued.....

______________________________

 

[Schaeff58]

Ok, Just read your tips again and watched a good video by Eric the car guy on youtube, Not a pontiac but was a gm car, so I am sure it similar, rack looked alike:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPvYE7fM-Os
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94wY_tAommo#t=492.440293

and another one that is from a pontiac 1999 gramd am:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL6Hm8VhGqE&t=538s

Will let ya know how it goes... cking the subframe bolts first!

Schaeff

Edit 3-12-17:

Wanted to mention this. The first two links for the same process are ok. The aurthor, Eric the car guy, has good vids and helps me to see the process and one way to do it. I didn't think this was the only way, and a note in the comment section mentions another way, which I followed (after making sure the sub frame bolt came loose). Time would have been more than 1.5 hrs for me.... but I had another problem.....

The other guy JayK Mann's comment:

"Took a bit too much time on that. Remove both wheels. Mark then bust the tow-in nuts at tie rods, as well as the tie-rod joints free from the steering knuckles. Lower the rear of the cradle no more than a couple of inches with the floor jack. Using a 3 ft pry bar, lift the u-joint cover through opened left wheel housing. Rotate the steering wheel so the pinch bolt is accessible through same opening then turn the ignition key to lock wheel placement. Using a ratchet & 3 ft extension, remove u-joint pinch bolt and then pry joint off rack. Once joint has been released from the rack you can lower cradle a bit more for hand access from underneath. The rest of the removal of the fld lines, using crow foot line wrenches, and rack mounting bolts can be done from underneath the car. Pull the loose rack through the drivers side wheel opening. Nice endeavor, albeit, trial and error. 1.5 hrs labor, out & in, my way."

The directions, for me, were pretty helpful. I was well on the way, and was about to remove the rack when I found the bracket that held the right side of the rack in place was broke off. This mean I was going to have to swap out the whole sub frame.... so thats what I proceeded to do.

 

[Schaeff58]

So thanks to my buddy that got me the rack, and sub frame, I was ready to proceed. Made a redneck engine support, with two 2x4's, 4 2x4 blocks set on the edge of the fender, inside the engine compartment, not on the fender, and a ratchet strap... worked fine so far.

I broke the ball joints loose, (that was a pain). Took out all the bolts except the front engine mount bolts. It was good to be able to go back and forth to look at the frame going in...I have a mid-rise lift, holds 6K, lbs really helps out on the diy stuff I do on my ageing fleet of late 90's and early 2000 cars. (I know I know, I am getting rid of them as the kids leave). You also have to take off the speed sensor wires on both sides, the brake line that goes to the passenger caliper. Oh, I had to hold up the radiator/fans et al with another ratchet strap... all I did was wrap it and tie it off. Not sure why it was like that.. seems to be missing something. There was a support but it was not to substantial. I will look at that when I put it back together.

The Ball joints on the 'new' sub frame seemed ok, but the boots were trashed... so they had to be replaced.. This was a major PITA . Thought I could grind the rivets down on one side and punch them out. NOT.
Seems you do have to grind them one the smaller side, but they would not budge, no matter how many times I smacked my hand with the hammer. So I drilled them our and then with a cold chisel I was able to get then out. New bolt in ones were purchased for about 12 bucks each and installed. The bolts are almost the exact size as the rivet holes... I did not drill bigger, I was able to get them in using my impact and tighten them up.... that was at bout 7 pm last night... and I stopped... Headed down to put it all back together. Will post conclusion.

 

[melsg5]

thanks for the detailed post

 

[Schaeff58]

you are welcome melsg5.

I finished the job yesterday. This car is very rusty. I was lucky, and I know it... I hate all the plastic in the front that holds all the fenders in etc... thats a mess... the small botls are missing or snapped off... and those damn plactiic push in fasteners... I found a few on the new subframe, and that helped...

Wanted to mention one thing about the ball joints. As you may know, these are riveted in. The replacements are then bolted back in. The bolts are a very tight fit, and seem to more or less thread in... easy with an impact. Not bad at all. I put the bolts in from the top and tightened them up. The issue came when I tried to grease them. Unless you install an angled grease Zerk, which I knew I had some but could not find them, you will find the middle bolt is in the way. Tried to reverse bolt, but could not get it out, it just spun. So I ground the extra bolt down to the nut.... This was not as easy as it sounds. these are pretty hard bolts... but it worked and I got them lubed. If I had to do it again, I would at least put the middle ones nut up, if not all. Just an fyi...

It all seemed to work fine, no leaks and drove fine. Need an alignment now, and it looks like a couple tires... Think I am gonna move this car on, while it is still derivable!

Too bad I really like this little car, its peppy, reliable, and gets great gas mileage for the miles it has on it, some 154k. Like I said it is my sons car, or at least he drives it... and he is pretty hard on it. Looking at another Subaru, that is my go to car these days.

Schaeff out

______________________________

 

[Schaeff58]

the plot thickens on this Pontiac

Ok, while the rack replacement was a success, the car is now destined for the scrap heap, or to be parted out as needed to someone....

(but first a note about riveted ball joint removal. I found the best way to do this, is not to drill them out... but to grind off all three of the rivets on the one side, same side for all three and then just smack the bad ball joint with a hammer and it should come out. just did this on a chevy eqionox, it was a much quicker job... took the whole control arm out... that made it easier as well)

So my poor Red Pontiac Grand Am is gonna go away... really liked this little car... but emotions aside... finished the rack and subframe job and had tires put on it... some 8 weeks later son says it is really shaky at 50-60 mph. I drive it, and he's right... look at the tires... I see the problems....(see pics) wheels are going down the road spread eagle, they are trashed! So long story short. They told my son they could not align it when he picked it up back in April, and of course I never got the message... they said the frame... of the car.. the place where the rusty bolts that hold the cradle/subframe the engine and tranny sit in, where they attach to the car... (the thing I just replaced)... were too badly rusted to keep the thing true... SOOO.... sadly that's the end of this cars song...Mr Tire owned it and refunded me the $$ on those two tires.. So you cant beat that... Have had good experience with these guys.

Car runs great! Makes me sad... but life goes on... I guess they attempted to align it and it just did not hold true.... as seen by ruined tires... I learned a lot from this... and had I known it was this bad, would not have spent 500 bucks on tires two months ago.... Any body want a used pontiac? LOL, its got a spoiler!

 

[melsg5]

They make camber adjustment bolts for your car, an example below. Check with the alignment shop if this would resolve your issue.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camber-Adju...c-Firebird-Sunbird-Grand-Am-Prix/322489544737

 

[Schaeff58]

Thanks dude... thanks for the thought.

These are the strut attachment bolts correct? The issue with this car is that the place where the frame attaches to the car is Swiss cheese... sides are rusty pinch points, jack points I think are gone... its a rusty mess...

Or am I wrong about this... my first time dealing with a car that I could not have a aligned... Thanks for any input you have.

..... I did call.... Guy I was working with was not there.. but left a message... Ill follow up...

 

[melsg5]

I would ask the shop, is it a safety issue, is it the whole front end is moving constantly because of the rust, or will those bolts permit you to continue using the car for awhile.

______________________________

 

[Schaeff58]

What DJ told me.. the manager, and the mechanic or tech agreed that it would be ok for a little while etc, but it would eat tires... DUH... so if there is a fix I am not sure... he said something about having to pull motor, tranny, subframe et al, and have some one replace it... all I saw was dollar signs for a car that is barely worth the cost of the tires really, but easier and cheaper than putting another car on the road....

So do you think it toast, or is there hope...Im thinking toast....

The kid said there are supposed to be nuts welded into the frame... I think he is wrong I think there are held in there by a clip... at least thats what I saw when I put the subframe in.... .

 

[melsg5]

not being there I can only rely on your observations and comments and it sounds like it's time to move on

 

[Schaeff58]

not being there I can only rely on your observations and comments and it sounds like it's time to move on

I tend to agree with you... even if I get another year out of it... its not gonna get better... so rather then have an issue I am going to sent it on in what ever way I can... Thanks for the comments...

Schaeff

 

[melsg5]

if you can use a tax deduction donate it, usually the stated value doesnt reflect the actual condition it is in.