1997 Firebird 3.8 - Intermittent No-Start

Akula

Akula

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Hello all,

I wish to prevail of your wisdom. My 97 3.8 Firebird is giving me a strange no-start condition on occasion. I
Key in, beeps are there, but in turning to start the entire thing dies completely. No sound, no starter rotation, not even a splutter. Just dead.

Turning the key off and trying again gives absolutely nothing at all, no dash lights or even the beeps.

Its done it 3 times so far this week. If I disconnect the battery, then reconnect it, it gives me another go. Is this the VATS system playing up? The key seems OK to me? Any ideas on where to start?
 
Have you checked both battery cables on both ends?
Do you have a multimeter and checked battery voltage?
 
I thought this might be the battery as its been stored for quite a while (4 months or so) whilst having some work done and I doubt it was run much.
I put the battery on a trickle charger overnight and this morning it was good and strong. Started up fine. Came back to it this afternoon after work and same problem again.

I've got a multimeter but it seemed to be ok after a good charge last night. It was on 14.4V this morning, so the cells should be ok, right?

As for cables, I have checked the battery side of them but not all the way down to the other end yet. I'll make sure to do that when the weather calms down.
 
The maximum charge on a new battery is 12.75.
Did you have the engine running when you got a 14.4 reading?
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Yeah it was running - I got that reading from the dial on the dash this morning. It's not a new battery though - it's at least a couple of years old.

I've never encountered it before with a GM car, even my old C4 Corvette didn't do this.
 
Akula said:
Yeah it was running - I got that reading from the dial on the dash this morning. It's not a new battery though - it's at least a couple of years old.

I've never encountered it before with a GM car, even my old C4 Corvette didn't do this.
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That only tells you the alternator is working. You need a reading with the engine off after sitting overnight using the multimeter.
 
melsg5 said:
That only tells you the alternator is working. You need a reading with the engine off after sitting overnight using the multimeter.
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Ok, I'll take a reading tomorrow morning and report back.
 
Alright, having left it a full 24 hours I metered the battery this afternoon. Switched the headlights on a for a minute to take any top-charge off the battery, turned the lights off and then metered: it registered 12.55v.
The cables are very difficult to get at, so I'll have to meter those another time, but the connection to the back of the alternator at least looks sound. No damage.

Assuming those are fine, what would be next to check?
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Akula said:
Alright, having left it a full 24 hours I metered the battery this afternoon. Switched the headlights on a for a minute to take any top-charge off the battery, turned the lights off and then metered: it registered 12.55v.
The cables are very difficult to get at, so I'll have to meter those another time, but the connection to the back of the alternator at least looks sound. No damage.

Assuming those are fine, what would be next to check?
Click to expand...
Did you try starting it?
When you have the problem and turn on the headlights do they dim when you turn the key to start?
Does your owners manual list a starter relay?
 
Apologies for the absence from the thread here, I appreciate the help, I was rather ill throughout March.

I'm going to try your suggestion Melsg5 of starting with the lights on and seeing if they dim out a bit, and I will check the manual for a relay.

One thing that might add some context that has occurred to me since - I had the lower control arms replaced, and when the car was returned to me, the steering wheel was not straight despite the wheels being straight ahead. By not straight, I mean it must be a good 30-40 degrees out.

I've heard that this can damage the clock spring, and cause issues with the electrical system, could this be the culprit? If so, how can I go about straightening the wheel? Do these F Body cars have a drag link or anything like that?

I'm very grateful for your help - I'm still learning the car as I go.
 
The car should have had a front end alignment after that work. Bring it back to the shop.
 
Yeah, I thought the same but to be honest.the guy was a bit shady, and the shop it was in is about an hours drive away from me.
There is a place just up the road from me that could sort them instead, means paying another £40 or so but Id rather not drive too far if I can help it.
Ill update once it's sorted.
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Are you in Europe?
 
Just a brief update - I'm going to attempt to straighten the wheels out myself on the drive by adjusting the tie rods. I've not done alignment work before, but I'm going to have to try. Am I right in rotating the steering wheel to straight and level first (so it's positioned how I want it) and then adjusting each tie rod an equal number of rotations (one in and one out)?

Could someone give me a quick 101 on how to do it in an F body? I'll obviously get the alignment done professionally afterwards, this is just to get the car driveable without damaging that clock spring.
 
Akula said:
Just a brief update - I'm going to attempt to straighten the wheels out myself on the drive by adjusting the tie rods. I've not done alignment work before, but I'm going to have to try. Am I right in rotating the steering wheel to straight and level first (so it's positioned how I want it) and then adjusting each tie rod an equal number of rotations (one in and one out)?

Could someone give me a quick 101 on how to do it in an F body? I'll obviously get the alignment done professionally afterwards, this is just to get the car driveable without damaging that clock spring.
Click to expand...
You already know how to do it.
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Bit of an empty update here.

I spent a bit of time out under the bonnet again this evening as its finally stopped raining. The battery is still showing me 12.50v despite being sat for weeks.

There is no starter relay in the fuse/relay box so I assume that's attached to the starter.

I've discovered however I'm not going to be able to sort the tie rods myself, I just don't have enough space on the shared driveway so I need to get it to a shop for that to be done.

This starting issue is the only thing stopping me now. Does anyone have any other suggestions before I throw in the towel and get it towed?
 
What's the voltage at the starter solenoid terminal large post?
What's the voltage at the starter solenoid terminal small post when someone turns the key?
 
Link to youtube video

^ I've uploaded this video just to help illustrate the starting problem.

I'll try to get under the car again tomorrow and meter the starter, if I can get to it. There's a big metal shield blocking the damn thing.

At the risk of sounding stupid, where am I putting the positive and negative probes to test the starter posts Mel? Both on the same post?
 
Akula said:
Link to youtube video

^ I've uploaded this video just to help illustrate the starting problem.

I'll try to get under the car again tomorrow and meter the starter, if I can get to it. There's a big metal shield blocking the damn thing.

At the risk of sounding stupid, where am I putting the positive and negative probes to test the starter posts Mel? Both on the same post?
Click to expand...
The red goes to the terminal and the black goes to any metal ground.
 
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