2004 Grand Am Manual Transmission Doesn't Engage Gears After Idling in Neutral

hollybabyrx

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I know this might be a long shot, but does anyone have any thoughts on why a 5 speed 2004 Grand Am will temporarily not go into gear after being in neutral for a short period (for ex, at a stoplight). Once the car is off for a while, all the gears will engage again. I know little about cars but have been trying to troubleshoot this one. It's already at a disadvantage because it has been sitting for 4 years not being able to crank. I finally figured out it was the security system when I heard my husband say he always left it in neutral when he shut it down and pulled the key out. I always left it in reverse to shut it down and remove the key. I searched how to override the security issue and got it to crank for the first time in 4 years. We refreshed the gas and have been running it daily. I luckily got to drive it again twice after thinking it'd never crank again. My husband, prior to the 4yrs of it not cranking, was having trouble getting it in 1st and 3rd gear after stopping and putting it in neutral. I never had that problem till the 2nd time I drove it just now; after we put it in neutral and checked all the lights and signals. Once we were done, I went to shut it down and it would not go into reverse or any other gear. Once it had been completely switched off for a few hours, it would go into all the gears again. I know the clutch hydraulic fluid needs to be replaced but have a feeling that's not all of the problem. Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I really miss driving this car.
 
Sounds like a hydraulic problem related to the clutch. Is the fluid level going down?
 
No, Ive been checking the level every day. It stays constant. I did draw some out of the reservoir and it was dirty. I'm sure the fluid further down the line is just as bad, if not worse. I replaced what I took out and we are researching how to bleed it ourselves. Sorry, picture sideways...
 

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No, Ive been checking the level every day. It stays constant. I did draw some out of the reservoir and it was dirty. I'm sure the fluid further down the line is just as bad, if not worse. I replaced what I took out and we are researching how to bleed it ourselves. Sorry, picture sideways...
I have bled clutch fluid multiple times, now it is nice and clean, no bubbles coming out, but had a hard time getting the clutch to come off the floor on its own. Seemed like maybe still air stuck somewhere around master. Before throwing new parts at it (mainly a new master cylinder because we could do that ourselves), I had a couple more things I wanted to try. If it's a bad slave cylinder or anything else in the transmission bell housing it would be a no-go unfortunately because of the cost of getting that done.

There seems to be no leaks in the clutch hydraulics externally and it holds vacuum with the mityvac. Also, the reservoir stays constant and there is no signs of fluid along the parts of the line or connections that I can see. What I did (which is maybe not correct or conventional), is I took a small 12 ml oral syringe and injected 6 ml of hydraulic fluid slowly into the reservoir hole with an adaptor. The clutch pedal was also up at the time and bleeder valve closed. There was no resistance when pushing the fluid in, it took it all. Level in reservoir was the same as before I injected it. I went to add 6 ml more and got resistance at about 3 ml in so stopped. Checked clutch pedal and it had pressure again; I was careful because it still didn't feel smooth like it used to. Level in reservoir was perfect. Cranked her up and she went in gear & drove fine the first couple of times. After that, it started getting hard to get into gear and clutch pedal intermittently stuck half way up.

Today, injected 2 ml of fluid into reservoir hole. Now clutch feels smooth all the way down like I remember it used to. Goes into gears. But, I'm afraid it won't last. This makes no sense to me, because there's no leaks that I can tell. I don't want to drive it for fear of doing damage since I'm only using my logic, not that of a mechanic.

Two things I did notice when I was bleeding the line:
1) The dust endcap on the bleeder valve was missing so the valve screw had to be cleaned and the dust cover replaced with a new one.
2) The master cylinder reservoir was missing a diaphragm or gasket seal of any kind. I replaced that with a Dorman one.

Any thoughts on what could be going on?
______________________________
 
It's been nearly a month now of daily driving & clutch pedal works as smooth as butter and gears shift smoothly. Pushing the fluid into the master reservoir seemed to do the trick, praying it continues to!

Now going to take it in for a good tune up and brake bleed, as that fluid looks as bad as the clutch fluid did. I'm not messing with the brakes, that's way out of my league. Also have to replace a backup light switch (I think) and I don't know where it is other than near the transmission/gear box on the driver's side. So glad to have my car back :) The engine had to be a well-built one to be able to come back from the dead after so long.
 
Glad the clutch seems to be working better after the fluid change!
If the problem starts up again, try just touching the throttle momentarily to increase the engine speed 500-800rpm. Sometimes as the syncro's in the transmission wear they need a bit of help to do their job.
They basically match the transmission speed to the engine speed to make it easier for the gears to engage. Also for some unknown reason on my manual transmission Solstice some times if it wont go into 1st gear when idling If I engage reverse, then immediately shift into 1st gear it works better. Just some things to try. Hopefully you will not need them. Also you can release the clutch when the transmission is in neutral, and then reengage the clutch, that also sometimes helps.
 
Glad the clutch seems to be working better after the fluid change!
If the problem starts up again, try just touching the throttle momentarily to increase the engine speed 500-800rpm. Sometimes as the syncro's in the transmission wear they need a bit of help to do their job.
They basically match the transmission speed to the engine speed to make it easier for the gears to engage. Also for some unknown reason on my manual transmission Solstice some times if it wont go into 1st gear when idling If I engage reverse, then immediately shift into 1st gear it works better. Just some things to try. Hopefully you will not need them. Also you can release the clutch when the transmission is in neutral, and then reengage the clutch, that also sometimes helps.
Thank you so much for that info, I'm screenshotting it in case I need it. I've only been driving it around the neighborhood because I'm still a bit nervous to drive it onto the main road. It has expired tags but is covered under liability insurance. It's been going good long enough to make me think it'll be fine to make it to the mechanic's.
It's also intermittently sputtering at the exhaust and releasing steam. My dad will throttle it a little in neutral to get it to release a lot of it. He said where it sat for so long, moisture built up in the exhaust, but the repair shop should be able to sort through that. The car isn't really worth anything except to me, so here's hoping...
______________________________
 
Glad the clutch seems to be working better after the fluid change!
If the problem starts up again, try just touching the throttle momentarily to increase the engine speed 500-800rpm. Sometimes as the syncro's in the transmission wear they need a bit of help to do their job.
They basically match the transmission speed to the engine speed to make it easier for the gears to engage. Also for some unknown reason on my manual transmission Solstice some times if it wont go into 1st gear when idling If I engage reverse, then immediately shift into 1st gear it works better. Just some things to try. Hopefully you will not need them. Also you can release the clutch when the transmission is in neutral, and then reengage the clutch, that also sometimes helps.
Well, over 3 months of having a smooth running transmission, it happened. I was taking my daughter to school and I noticed every time I had to stop, it got harder to get into gear. I always put it in neutral if I'm at a stoplight that is long, because I don't want to hold the clutch down too long. Once I got to her school it became really obvious something was wrong as it was really hard to get it into both first and reverse. I was able to get it, but then once on the highway the clutch pedal went down and didn't come back up. I was able to pop it up with my foot but there was no pressure. I live on the deadliest stretch of highway in my state. I remembered cammerjeff's post about throttling a little bit if that happens so that's what I did from neutral to 3rd. I drove like a granny the rest of the way home & thankfully I made it.

Checked the MC reservoir and this was a first...fluid was down to the bottom. I've never had the fluid drop, not even when it was black. And then came the disappointment...the kind that comes with tears...lots of them. I thought I had really accomplished something by successfully bleeding and getting the pressure back myself but seems I only delayed the inevitable.

I refilled the reservoir. Clutch still on floor so I got the air out again. Checked the interior around the clutch pedal, didn't feel anything that indicated a leak on that side. Looking from the top down on the other side of the firewall, I didnt see anything, but I really can't see the MC from up there.

Once I did get the clutch pressure back I moved her onto the cement part of the driveway and put some white cardboard under it where all the transmission parts would be. The next morning there was one small drop of fluid under the MC/clutch pedal area about the size of a quarter. I hadn't spilled any refilling the reservoir. Everything else was clear.

I have a strong suspicion the MC is failing. As long as the car sat, that had to have been rough on the seals. I hope it's not the slave too but it wouldn't surprise me. I know it's better to replace these 2 cylinders together, although not mandatory. From what I've been told the slaves that are in the bell housing are engineered to last longer, but I don't know for sure. It seems that the slave cyl would be shielded a little bit more from the elements. I've also heard if you replace one cylinder and it is performing much more effectively than the other cylinder, the older one will be stressed more and fail soon after.

She'd been to the mechanic back in August & had a good tune-up which included a change of transmission fluid, freon added to the a/c, oil change, new fuel filter, new brakes and fluid, power steering fluid, new spark plugs, new backup/neutral switch and windshield wipers. They also inspected her and she's legal again. Said she's still a good car. We've already invested a lot in getting that done. I've also put a lot of time and love in this car and it means even more to me since I have. Even had gotten her severely warped dashboard looking a lot better with some fuel line around the windshield edge and a little JB Weld high heat epoxy under the padded vinyl covering in front of the crushed defroster vent. Replaced the vent too. Point being, it'd be a shame at this point to not have the transmission dropped if it is needed.

It's odd because I had just driven the car for 90 min a couple days before and it did beatifully. This just happened all of a sudden. Since I've been driving it again, I've realized how much I've missed driving a manual. That's predominantly what I've driven for most of my driving life. Even before I was old enough for my permit, I drove my dad's old tractor with the old mechanical clutch when I helped him on the farm. I generally don't enjoy driving, especially around here. But that changed when I got the 5-speed back.

My question is, if I check the fluid before I leave and take some dot 3 fluid with me, am I safe in getting her 10 min up the road to the mechanic? I don't want to do any damage to the transmission. I figured if I can't get it into 1st after a stoplight then I can turn the car off and shift it into first then restart it.
 
Well, over 3 months of having a smooth running transmission, it happened. I was taking my daughter to school and I noticed every time I had to stop, it got harder to get into gear. I always put it in neutral if I'm at a stoplight that is long, because I don't want to hold the clutch down too long. Once I got to her school it became really obvious something was wrong as it was really hard to get it into both first and reverse. I was able to get it, but then once on the highway the clutch pedal went down and didn't come back up. I was able to pop it up with my foot but there was no pressure. I live on the deadliest stretch of highway in my state. I remembered cammerjeff's post about throttling a little bit if that happens so that's what I did from neutral to 3rd. I drove like a granny the rest of the way home & thankfully I made it.

Checked the MC reservoir and this was a first...fluid was down to the bottom. I've never had the fluid drop, not even when it was black. And then came the disappointment...the kind that comes with tears...lots of them. I thought I had really accomplished something by successfully bleeding and getting the pressure back myself but seems I only delayed the inevitable.

I refilled the reservoir. Clutch still on floor so I got the air out again. Checked the interior around the clutch pedal, didn't feel anything that indicated a leak on that side. Looking from the top down on the other side of the firewall, I didnt see anything, but I really can't see the MC from up there.

Once I did get the clutch pressure back I moved her onto the cement part of the driveway and put some white cardboard under it where all the transmission parts would be. The next morning there was one small drop of fluid under the MC/clutch pedal area about the size of a quarter. I hadn't spilled any refilling the reservoir. Everything else was clear.

I have a strong suspicion the MC is failing. As long as the car sat, that had to have been rough on the seals. I hope it's not the slave too but it wouldn't surprise me. I know it's better to replace these 2 cylinders together, although not mandatory. From what I've been told the slaves that are in the bell housing are engineered to last longer, but I don't know for sure. It seems that the slave cyl would be shielded a little bit more from the elements. I've also heard if you replace one cylinder and it is performing much more effectively than the other cylinder, the older one will be stressed more and fail soon after.

She'd been to the mechanic back in August & had a good tune-up which included a change of transmission fluid, freon added to the a/c, oil change, new fuel filter, new brakes and fluid, power steering fluid, new spark plugs, new backup/neutral switch and windshield wipers. They also inspected her and she's legal again. Said she's still a good car. We've already invested a lot in getting that done. I've also put a lot of time and love in this car and it means even more to me since I have. Even had gotten her severely warped dashboard looking a lot better with some fuel line around the windshield edge and a little JB Weld high heat epoxy under the padded vinyl covering in front of the crushed defroster vent. Replaced the vent too. Point being, it'd be a shame at this point to not have the transmission dropped if it is needed.

It's odd because I had just driven the car for 90 min a couple days before and it did beatifully. This just happened all of a sudden. Since I've been driving it again, I've realized how much I've missed driving a manual. That's predominantly what I've driven for most of my driving life. Even before I was old enough for my permit, I drove my dad's old tractor with the old mechanical clutch when I helped him on the farm. I generally don't enjoy driving, especially around here. But that changed when I got the 5-speed back.

My question is, if I check the fluid before I leave and take some dot 3 fluid with me, am I safe in getting her 10 min up the road to the mechanic? I don't want to do any damage to the transmission. I figured if I can't get it into 1st after a stoplight then I can turn the car off and shift it into first then restart it.
You got it home so I assume you can get it to the mechanic
 
I wish I knew how to slip shift, but I don't. I can read about it, but actually doing it is different. I have a phobia of gear grinding. It's like people that don't like nails on a chalkboard but worse. If I had someone to show me nearby I probably could, but no luck.
 
I think you will be OK to drive it to the shop, just like you said, fill it up, and take some extra fluid just in case.

Remember you are dealing with a 20 year old car. Things sometimes just break, or in this case start leaking. Good luck and I hope it is just the master cylinder, and not the actual clutch cylinder also.
______________________________
 
Thank you! If it hadn't been for your advice, I never would have made it home that day & possibly something worse would've happened. I was able to make it to the mechanic. We took it at night when the road wasn't as busy.

There was a leaking master cylinder seal. I said go ahead and replace it and they had to order the part. I love this shop because they really care about the cars & customers. They said they accidentally ordered both the slave & master so replaced them both for the cost of the master. They were able to replace the slave without dropping the transmission. They also said the way I got clutch pressure back was perfectly fine (I was scared that I'd done more harm than good). Car drives really good again. I want to keep that car going as long as possible because they just don't make them like that anymore. Thanks again for your help!
 
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