Another question about pass lock on a 96 Sunfire.

[Guest]

Hello to the forum.
I'm sorry that I didn't take the time to introduce myself before posting a problem,but I've been searching for an answer,and running all types of tests on this car for 3 days now. And to be honest,I'm now dead beat tired.
I have about one question left in me.
This is a 96,2.4, 5Sp, Sunfire convertible.
I bought the car on Sunday,and was able to drive it home. However,it would not go over 3k rpm. If it was taken above 3k, it coughed,backfired,and tried to stall.
It also would not start without using starting fluid. Once running it sounded good,just as long as the rpm was kept under 3k.

Now the engine will not start at all. It has the following codes, po122,po335,po342, and po502. All these codes at once seem a tad out of place. I maybe wrong,but I think the theft system is the cause of these problems.
Please correct me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

The security light is now on steady. I do not recall it being on during the trip home,but it may have been.(I had other things on my mind at the time,like keeping the thing running)
I can not get the scanner to preform a KOEO test. In fact, the scanner will not even show the option for the test. (Snap on Solus)
Anyway, I noticed that the chip that is found in most GM pass lock systems is missing from the keys that I was given for the car. The PO says the keys worked for years,so I have to believe that the keys are the correct ones for the car.
Question, how does the theft system work if there is no chip in the key? And,is there anyway of finding the ohm value of the system?

Please excuse my jumping in here. I didn't just post without searching. I have done a lot of searching over the last few days.
I did see a thread on tis site that was about 3 years old that had some information,but it lacked the information on how this "chip less" system actually works,or what can be done to reset it,or bypass it.
I have tried the waiting 10-20 minute program without luck. And several other theories on how to get the system back up.

Also...does anyone know where the BCM is located in this car? I'm about ready to take a BFH to the dash.

Please help.
Between not being able to see or feel anything under the dash,and not being able to find any type of manual or information locally, I'm about to lose it.
And just to be on the safe side,the CMP and CKP were replaced. The wiring was tested and all checks out. In fact the wiring and all connectors are like new.
Thanks so much for any help.
Desperate on Maui.

 

[MaryTheGreenSunfire97]

Happy to help bcuz it sounds like your fustrated lol

Ok Im new to this website to so this is my first entry.... I noticed that you seem to have a similar problem that i was having (the Security light). idk why yours came on because you say you have already drove the car but however..... when the Security light is on the car shuts down the Fuel Injector from injecting gas in the engine.... Therefore all efforts to start the car will be futile.... This is a easy fix however.... To disengage the Security light all you do is put the keys in the car and turn it over enuff to how you would if you were going to listen to the radio while Parked.... Leave the keys "turned over" without turning to much to actually start the car for about 10 mins..... after this turn the car back off and then try to start the car like you normally would with turning it all the way...... I dealt with the damn Security light for two days and ended up calling Pontiac lol and talking with a tech who walked me thru the whole process ..... So i hope this helps and plz repost if it does so i feel good lol.... Thx

 

[Guest]

Ok Im new to this website to so this is my first entry.... I noticed that you seem to have a similar problem that i was having (the Security light). idk why yours came on because you say you have already drove the car but however..... when the Security light is on the car shuts down the Fuel Injector from injecting gas in the engine.... Therefore all efforts to start the car will be futile.... This is a easy fix however.... To disengage the Security light all you do is put the keys in the car and turn it over enuff to how you would if you were going to listen to the radio while Parked.... Leave the keys "turned over" without turning to much to actually start the car for about 10 mins..... after this turn the car back off and then try to start the car like you normally would with turning it all the way...... I dealt with the damn Security light for two days and ended up calling Pontiac lol and talking with a tech who walked me thru the whole process ..... So i hope this helps and plz repost if it does so i feel good lol.... Thx

Thanks for the reply,
I think that I have tried every reset trick ever thought up in an effort to get the system restored.

However,what you said did help,I think.lol.
I was under the impression that if the security light was on steady...the security system was disabled,and the car should start. You're saying that if the light is on steady the system is enabled and the car won't start? I thought that only if the light was flashing the car wouldn't start?

So...Now I am confused.

One thing is for sure,I'd like to have a few words with the engineer that came up with this design,and the project leader that pushed it to production!

I have tested every thing I can think of. At this point there is no power to the injectors. From what I can find,there should always be power to the injectors when the key is in the on position.

I can not find anyway of telling if the security system is on or not. Most times a scan tool will show when a security system is active. Not on this little gem.

My interest in this car is fading fast. And do not like things I do not understand,or that can be easily fixed. I never would have bought the car if hadn't been for the great '98 Cavalier that I bought for my daughter. That Cavalier took her through high school and college,and all it ever need was gas and oil. I've made worse investments than this Sunfire,so walking away isn't going to be real hard. One thing I try avoiding is throwing good money after bad. This looks to just be a bad deal on my part.

Thanks again for your reply. I guess you're the only one that knows anything about this cars security system,seeing as to how you were the only one with an offer of help.

Take care.

 

[2000SunfireGT]

The security light will turn on SOLID when you turn the key to the on position before attempting to start the vehicle. this is to let the user know that the system is online and functioning properly. If the light is BLINKING, this means that pass lock is enabled and you will not be able to start the car. P0122 is Throttle Position Sensor circuit low input, which explains why you couldnt rev up over 3k. this means that the throttle position sensor is giving a constant low reading, therefore it is time to replace it. P0335 is Crankshaft Position Sensor circuit malfunction, which tells me that there is either a broken wire on the crankshaft position sensor or the sensor itself is bad. in either situation, THIS CODE IS THE REASON THE CAR WILL NOT START! P0342 is Camshaft Position Sensor low input which is another contributing factor as to why the car will not start. This also says that it is time to replace the camshaft position sensor. P0502 is Vehicle Speed Sensor circuit low output, which is also a contribution factor to not being able to rev the car past 3k without it wanting to die. NONE OF THESE CODES ARE PASS LOCK RELATED! Replace these sensors, and I can GUARANTEE that your car will start right up!

______________________________

 

[Guest]

The security light will turn on SOLID when you turn the key to the on position before attempting to start the vehicle. this is to let the user know that the system is online and functioning properly. If the light is BLINKING, this means that pass lock is enabled and you will not be able to start the car. P0122 is Throttle Position Sensor circuit low input, which explains why you couldnt rev up over 3k. this means that the throttle position sensor is giving a constant low reading, therefore it is time to replace it. P0335 is Crankshaft Position Sensor circuit malfunction, which tells me that there is either a broken wire on the crankshaft position sensor or the sensor itself is bad. in either situation, THIS CODE IS THE REASON THE CAR WILL NOT START! P0342 is Camshaft Position Sensor low input which is another contributing factor as to why the car will not start. This also says that it is time to replace the camshaft position sensor. P0502 is Vehicle Speed Sensor circuit low output, which is also a contribution factor to not being able to rev the car past 3k without it wanting to die. NONE OF THESE CODES ARE PASS LOCK RELATED! Replace these sensors, and I can GUARANTEE that your car will start right up!

Well that's a lot of information to be thankful for,and I am.
Problem is...all of the related sensors with the exception of the TPS and the VSS have been replaced, and the engine still will not start,or even fire.

Moving right along.
I did read some where during this extensive hunt for information that the bulb test wire should be grounded with the ignition in the off position,open in the run position,and grounded in the start position. Can anyone confirm this? The information was located @ Jay Corp Technologies, and I printed it off just to make sure I had it right while doing the tests.


The bulb test wire in this car has 2k ohms in the off position and is grounded in the run and start positions.
I have also found that there is no power to the injectors with the key in the on position. I'm not sure about this,but I thought that the injectors had power to one side anytime the ignition was in the on position.

Using the scan tool to sweep the TPS shows that its working just fine,but I am going to check it with a scope this weekend. I should add that the scanner does not show a signal that the engine is turning while the engine is cranking.

I have my doubts about the VSS being able to keep the engine from starting,but since that little sucker is about a $150.00,I'm going to make darn sure that its crapped the bed before buying a new one. Plus no one has one in stock anyway.
I know that in some EFI system the VSS does have an effect on starting. Anyone know for sure if a bad VSS can keep the engine from starting in this car?
So that's the latest in this on going problem. Some times I really do miss the old points systems.lol

I did find a couple of original shop manuals on line,sooo with a little luck those will show up next week. The biggest problem here for me is the lack of information on the subject at hand. I'm looking forward to getting the manuals.

I was also thinking along the lines that the VSS may have been why the engine wouldn't rev above 3k. My thought was if the PCM didn't know the car was moving it would engage the rev limiter. Just a thought.
Well thanks for the info on the security light,and the rest of the info. It all helps in one way or another. Knowing the light is supposed to be on steady is a real help.

Anyone have any thoughts on the bulb test wire findings?

Thanks again.

Oh, and as if things weren't bad enough, the person parking next to me busted the power mirror off! Of course they were vacationers,never said a word. Just left. Nice!