Brake Caliper pins

bluedemon

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Hi guys! I went to change my brake pads on my Montana and I have a couple questions. What is that rubber sleeve that is on one of the pins and not the other. I am talking about the part of the pin that goes into the hole. I had a hell of a time getting it out. Is that particular pin supposed to be in the top or the bottom of the caliper bracket? Both of those particular pins were in the bottom of the caliper bracket and were very hard to get out. I cleaned out the holes that the pins go into and put lube on the pins. The one without that rubber sleeve works great but the one with that sleeve is very hard to move in and out. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!
 
I also just wanted to say that I completely cleaned out where those pins go in my caliper bracket. Then I put anti-seize lubrication on the pins and put them back in the bracket. After about 2 hours I went out to see if I could pull the pins out easily and the one WITHOUT the rubber sleeve on it came right out. The one WITH the rubber sleeve would only turn but not slide up and down. I had to take a Vise grips and clamp it then pound it out with a hammer!! I don't understand why it is like that. Again any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank You
 
Is this on the front or rear?

Is this the same caliper you had problems with in a earlier thread?
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Sorry these are in the front and no this isn't the same problem I had in a previous thread. I have gone and bought a bottle of the synthetic brake lube and put that on my NEW pins, that I bought at Auto Zone on both wheels. I also had both my front rotors turned. How should the pads sit in the bracket-- should the wear indicator on one of the pads be on the outside or on the inside? Top or bottom? The Haynes manual doesn't really clarify it.
 
The indicators designed to follow the pad not to be in front of the pad when driving forward.

Some vehicles have wear indicators on all the pads.

Just make sure to install the indicators as mentioned above.

Normally when working on brakes you do one side at a time, this way you have a reference of what to do in case you get confused.

For your other problem with the caliper, once again take pictures of what your dealing with.

You should never ever have to take a hammer to any part of your calipers.

I will look online to see what type of calipers and brakes you have on the front, so I may be able to offer some useful advise.
 
OK Looking at the AutoZone website, you have two bolts that hold the caliper to the caliper bracket that hold the pads positioned.

These bolts screw into the caliper slide pins. the boots are dust boots that keep the slide pin lube from seeping out and keep water and dust out of this area.

You need to have these boots all four of them in place.

With the slide pins properly lubricated and boots installed these pins should move freely within the limitations of normal travel allowed by the dust boot.

If you are not getting resistance free travel of this pin you may have had corrosion develop on the pin or the inner bore. which may be cause to replace the caliper assembly.

The manual available on Autozone website clearly shows to replace the caliper pins when corrosion is present on the pins.

If corrosion has built up on the bore you will not likely clean it without distorting the bore.

From the Autozone website

If the caliper pin boots are damaged, inspect the caliper pins for corrosion or damage. If corrosion is found on the brake caliper pin shaft, replace the brake caliper pin and the brake caliper pin boot. Do not attempt to polish away the corrosion.
 
Hello !
I wanted to add to the above ....

12469295.jpg
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Thank you for the helpful advise! EaOutlaw I didn't take a hammer to my caliper. I had to get the pins out of the caliper "bracket" and the top pin came right out but the bottom one would not. I had to put a vise grip on the pin and pound it out with a hammer. I did replace the pins with brand new ones however. I did do one brake at a time and while I was working on one I looked at the other and it showed that the pad with the wear indicator was on the front pad on the bottom. so that looks correct according to Sergeimoskva's photo. Thank you for that!
 
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Here is a picture of the pins I am talking about that I could not get out. The one without the rubber sleeve came right out
 

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I picture is worth a thousand words when it comes to questions like this.

I thought you were writing about the rubber dust boots.

In fact I have never seen caliper pins with the rubber sleeve before.

I am guessing with the new sleeves and proper lube the pins work as expected?

BTW I mentioned that you should never ever have to use a hammer on any part of your brakes for a reason.

There are plenty of other methods that could have been used that will not potentially cause damage to the parts your trying to save.

Anyways hopefully it is repaired and all is well with your ride.
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I picture is worth a thousand words when it comes to questions like this.

I thought you were writing about the rubber dust boots.

In fact I have never seen caliper pins with the rubber sleeve before.

I am guessing with the new sleeves and proper lube the pins work as expected?

BTW I mentioned that you should never ever have to use a hammer on any part of your brakes for a reason.

There are plenty of other methods that could have been used that will not potentially cause damage to the parts your trying to save.

Anyways hopefully it is repaired and all is well with your ride.

Yes your right EaOutlaway about pounding on things that have to do with your brakes. What I should of done is heat it with a torch but I didn't think about it till I got done. With the new pins it works great BUT I keep hearing squeaks from the pads WHILE THE CAR IS MOVING. When I turn left there is a repetitive small squeak. Was I supposed to put lubricant in the steal grooves that the pads sit in?
 
Did you replace the hardware kit?

The replaceable metal pad slides that fit in the pad bracket need to be replaced if worn or cleaned.

I always just replace them.

Lubricating these will just cause brake dust to accumulate and may lead to the pads not to slide properly.

Did you machine the rotors or replace them?

Did you check the backing plate to make sure it did not get bent during the brake job?

Did you check the front wheel bearings for play?

Did you check the pad slides to make sure none of them are installed incorrectly?

Double check your work.
 
Okay EaOutlaw here is what has been done so far. Both front wheel hubs have been changed and there is no play at all. I have replaced all hardware and had the rotors Machined. I will bring the van in and do another check of the pad slides. From what I see I have no backing plates on my front brakes on either side. Would it be okay to put some anti-squeal on the back of the pads? Also I bought the semi metallic pads-should I have bought the ceramics instead?
 
Is the noise a constant noise or does it sound like a rotational squeak that would be in time with the tire rotation where the squeak starts and stops?


"Would it be okay to put some anti-squeal on the back of the pads?" Sure you can do that if you want.

When the machine shop or parts store machined the rotors. did they finish of the machining with a non directional scratch pattern?

Did you clean the rotor to hub surface on the rotor and make sure to line up the rotor the same way it came off?

Most hubs have a large hole or a few small holes that will allow brake dust and or rust to accumulate leaving an impression where the holes were.

If the mating surfaces were not lined up it could cause a vibration when applying the brake.

As far as the type of pads I normally suggest going with the factory Pads whenever possible, yet even factory pads can make noise.

Did you follow the break in procedures for the pads?

Did you use a known calibrated torque wrench to tighten the hubs down?

I am am little nervous about the noise, because normally when properly installed brakes make noise it is only when braking.

With your brakes making noise only on left turns it is making me think something is moving or flexing when it shouldn't be.

Do like you said inspect the brakes again. but check the front and rear again.

Noises can be weird, what you would bet money on being a noise from the front could be from the rear.

If you check all the brakes, put the coating on the pads and check the ball joints tie rod ends etc and do not find anything.

I would suggest checking into any factory TSBs related to the brakes.

Over the years I found many Brake related TSBs that required updated part and or service procedures to help eliminate noises that appear after a brake job.

Some vehicles like Mitsubishi brand we had to machine brake rotors on the car. even if we replaced the rotors with new rotors, they had to be machine on the car.

Other cars would have updated calipers or brackets.

It would be worth your time to look into TSBs on any job you perform on your car.

Do you have access to Alldata diy yet?
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Here is an example of a Relevant updated TSB that is related to brake lathe maintenance.

Do you think the place you brought your rotors to knew about and followed these procedures?

If they are a high volume shop even a dealer may not have looked this one up and keep up with the maintenance of their lathe properly.

This TSB is just an example of what I pulled up for my Wife's HHR yet applies to all GM cars.

# 00-05-22-002O: Brake Lathe Calibration Procedure - (Mar 24, 2015)
Subject: Brake Lathe Calibration Procedure

Models: 2014 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks

Attention: This Bulletin also applies to any of the above models that may be Export vehicles.
This Bulletin has been significantly revised to remove outdated policies and service procedures. Step 5 has also been updated under On-Car Type Lathe. Please refer to SI for the latest brake service procedures and to the Service Policies and Procedures Manual for documentation requirements. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-05-22-002N.
Regular maintenance and calibration is essential to assure the use of equipment results in high quality and satisfactory repairs. Most manufacturers recommend weekly or monthly cleaning and inspection of equipment with repair or replacement of worn or damaged parts as needed. Annual or semi-annual calibration of equipment is also recommended, depending on frequency of use. The manufacturer of your equipment will have specific recommendations and, in many cases, can provide inspection and calibration services.
BRAKE LATHE CALIBRATION PROCEDURE
Calibration of the brake lathe should be performed and recorded monthly or whenever post-service brake rotor LRO measurements are consistently reading above specification.
BENCH-TYPE LATHE
Use the following procedure to calibrate a Bench-type brake lathe:
1. After refinishing a rotor, loosen the arbor nut and while holding the inside bell clamp to keep it from rotating, rotate the rotor 180 degrees.
2. Retighten the arbor nut and set the dial indicator on the rotor using the same instructions as checking the run out on the vehicle.
3. Rotate the arbor and read the runout.
4. Divide the reading by two and this will give you the amount of runout the lathe is cutting into the rotor.
Important : If there is any runout, you will need to machine the inside bell clamp in place on the lathe (this procedure is for a Bench type lathe ONLY, DO NOT machine inside the bell clamp on an On-Car type lathe).
Machining the Inside Bell Clamp (Bench Type Lathe Only)
Any nicks or burrs on the shoulder of the arbor must be removed. An 80-grit stone can be used to accomplish this. Spray WD-40(R) on the shoulder and with the lathe running, hold the stone flat against the shoulder surface using slight pressure. When the burrs are gone, clean the surface. Burrs must also be removed from the hub of the inside bell clamp. This can be accomplished with the stone and WD-40(R). Keep the stone flat on the hub while removing the burrs. After removing the burrs, clean the hub.
Place the bell clamp on the arbor of the lathe and use the small radius adapters first and then spacers to allow you to tighten the arbor nut to secure the bell clamp to the lathe. Position the tool bit in the left hand of the rotor truer so you can machine the face of the bell clamp. Machine the face of the bell clamp taking just enough off of it to cut the full face of the clamp the full 360 degrees. Before you loosen the arbor nut, match mark the hub of the bell clamp to the arbor and line up these marks before machining a rotor. A magic marker can be used to make the match marks. Machine a rotor and recheck the calibration. Repeat this procedure on all Inside Bell Clamps used.
Important : If runout is still present, contact the brake lathe supplier.
ON-CAR TYPE LATHE
Use the following procedure to calibrate an On-Car brake lathe:
1. Connect the lathe to a vehicle using the appropriate adapter.
2. Attach a vise-grip dial indicator to a fixed point in the wheel well and bring the dial indicator to a flat surface on the cutting head.
3. Turn on the lathe and press the "start" button so the lathe begins to compensate.
4. Once compensation is complete, note the runout as measured by the dial indicator. Measured runout at this point is overstated given that it is outside the rotor diameter.
5. If runout is in excess of 0.1016mm (0.004 in) (0.050mm (0.002 in) as measured within the rotor diameter), calibration must be checked. Follow manufacturer's instructions for checking the calibration of the lathe. This information is found in the manual supplied with the lathe. If once calibration is corrected to factory specification for your lathe it is still not reducing runout to less than 0.002" on the rotor face, then contact your Pro-Cut at 800-543-6618 ext 2 for further assistance.
Important : If the machine is taking a long time to compensate during normal use, prior to checking the lathe calibration, it is recommended that the machine be disconnected from the adapter and the adapter (still connected to the vehicle) is rotated 180 degrees and the machine reattached. This will accomplish two things:
- It will re-verify the machine is properly attached to the adapter.
- It will change the location of the runout (phase) relative to the machine and thus possibly allow for quick compensation as a result of the position change.
The following information has been added as a reference to ensure your Pro-Cut PFM lathe provides a consistent smooth surface finish over long term usage.
Cutting Tips / Depth of Cut / Tip Life
The cutting tips must be right side up. Reference marks always face up. The cutting tips may not have chips or dings in the surface of the points. Cuts of 0.1016-0.381mm (0.004-0.015 in) will provide the best surface finish and the optimal tip life. When cleaning or rotating the cutting bits, make sure that the seat area for the tip on the tool is free and clear of debris.
Cutting Head
On each brake job, the technician must center the cutting head for that particular vehicle using one of the mounting bolt holes on the slide plate. Once the head is centered, it is vital that the technician use one hand to push the head firmly and squarely back into the dovetail on the slide plate while using the other hand to tighten the Allen-Hex bolt that secures the head. Failure to do this could result in chatter occurring during the cut.
Tool Holder Plate (Cutting Head)
The tool holder plate is the plate that the cutting arms are attached to. It can bend or break if a technician accidently runs the cutting arms into the hub of the rotor while the rotor is turning. (Cuts of more than 0.508mm (0.020 in) can also bend this plate). Once bent, the lathe will most likely not cut properly until the tool holder plate is replaced. In order to verify the condition of the tool holder plate on a machine that will not cut right, remove the mounting bolt and remove the cutting head from the slide plate. With the cutting head titled at an angle, lay the long edge of the tool holder plate down on the flat part of the slide plate. If any gap can be seen between the edge and the slide plate, the tool holder plate is bent and the source of vibration. Also check to ensure that the cutting arms are lying flat on the upper side of the tool holder plate. If the mounting arm post is bent, it will show itself by having the back of the cutting arm lifting off the surface of the tool holder.
Gib Adjustment / Loose Gib
As wear occurs between the slide plate and the box it rides on, you must take up the slack. You do this by way of a moveable wedge, which we call the gib. Your lathe manual details adjustment process, which you should perform when required after monthly checks or whenever surface finish is inconsistent.
 
Here is a video that is trying to demonstrate how to do a non directional finish at home.

Yet I picked this video to show you the importance of cleaning and sanding the rotor to hub mating surface and the rotor to wheel mating surface.

Somewhere in this video you can see where his rotor has sections that were never machined.

If you look at the mating surfaces the Op and the shop that machined the rotor didn't take the time to clean up the mating surface properly.

There is significant rust and brake dust build up that could prevent the rotor to be mounted properly on the brake lathe.

This would cause the technician to machine the rotor out of round. ( which appears to be obvious in this video ) the area that did not get machined seems to match a high rust build up area at the mating surface on the opposite side of the rotor that didn't get machined.

I would bet good money if both mating surfaces were cleaned up to bare metal and the lathe was properly calibrated. his rotors would not have any areas that did not get machined and they would not have taken so much metal away from the rotor to get it properly machined.

Name brand lathes have what looks like a angle grinder that attaches to the shaft of the lathe the abrasive disk spins at the same speed of the lathe giving you the proper non directional finish.

Some people try and use a high speed angle grinder to simulate this non directional finish yet it is not the same thing and does provide the same clean pattern.

My point with all of this, if your rotors still have the same rust on mating surfaces when you got them back the machine work may not have be done properly.

https://youtu.be/QUOmkvfYuM0
 
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