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DunedinCatalina

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Hi guys, I'm brand new to the forum with questions about my 1964 Catalina hardtop coupe. I got it from a classic car dealership, so its history is unknown to me. PHS report has it as a June 1964 build, 389 2-barrel, powerglide, 12H engine car. As I bought it, the car has a 389 tripower, close-ratio 4-spd and 4.88:1 Hotchkiss rear end. It still has its original engine, now rebuilt to a 421 using its original block/heads. The car was delivered to Harris Pontiac in Clearwater Florida. What I'm confused about is who would do the conversion. It has a bench seat, which was retained, but whoever converted it to a manual tranny took the time to install a manual steering column and installed the block off plate for the gear indicator on the dash for the old automatic. The car appears to be set up for 1/8 mile drag racing, but the power steering, brakes and A/C were left installed. I've heard of late model year production vehicles could be ordered with just about anything you wanted, ie, tripower units delivered in the trunk. But a factory 4-spd conversion, with a close ratio unit? And the installer did not use a shifter pedestal mount either. The shifter bezel is mounted directly to the floor. Does anyone have any ideas of who would make such modifications? Dealer, specialist on the west coast of Florida? I'd like to make it into a Royal Bobcat tribute car but before I do, I'd like to understand what I have first. Also I'd like to get a value on the car. The car is a:

1964 Catalina two door hardtop, (8.5/10)
389 tripower (rebuilt, bored/stroked to 421)
Close ratio 4 speed trans (I believe it's not a rock crusher)
4.88:1 Safe-T-Trac Hotchkiss style rear
Power steering, brakes and A/C
Painted wheels with poverty caps
Repainted but has original interior

Thanks for any help you can provide and I'm excited to be on the site. The searches I've done so far have been very helpful.

Thanks,
Sean
 
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I would think if the factory did anything out of the ordinary it would have shown up on the paper work you obtained from PHS. Beyond that without knowing the history of Harris Pontiac, did they readily modify new cars, it's anybodies guess who made the changes. You may be able to tell more if you can find the date codes on the transmission. Lots of luck with the car.
 
I am thinking the same thing with regards to factory. The modifications seem better than a shade tree mechanic but not consistent with the factory. I'm hoping someone knows something about Harris Pontiac and the kind of work they possibly did. It's definitely one odd bird.
 
try finding the date code on the trani, it will give you a clue as to how long ago it was done
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I agree that the transmission change was more likely done by a previous owner, not the dealer or local shop. A dealer would not normally swap transmission types like that. They would just order a manual trans car. They would swap a 4-speed for a 3-speed, or a floor shift for a column shift.
As said you need to find out what type of trans is in the car, some pictures of the car and parts in question could help a lot also.
Sounds like a fun old car no matter who did the conversion.
 
Just found out that Charlie Harris Pontiac in Clearwater Florida got their business license from the state of Florida on August 2 ,1965.

Last activity was 12/18/1986

Also found out that the dealership was part responsible of EPA finding of a Peak Oil Company pollution site that contamined an aquifier that supplied water for 57000 people in 1984

Doug in P.R.:cool:
 
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cammerjeff said:
I agree that the transmission change was more likely done by a previous owner, not the dealer or local shop. A dealer would not normally swap transmission types like that. They would just order a manual trans car. They would swap a 4-speed for a 3-speed, or a floor shift for a column shift.
As said you need to find out what type of trans is in the car, some pictures of the car and parts in question could help a lot also.
Sounds like a fun old car no matter who did the conversion.
Click to expand...

Ok, have had quite a time getting my Catalina out of a crap shop and into one that will actually do the work for the money I pay them. I took some photos of transmission today while it was on the lift. The numbers on the trans are as follows: passenger side on the main body (above the US Patent # casting) is 3885010. On the passenger side of the tailshaft is 3846429. Hope this information will help identify what type and year of close-ratio 4-spd I have.

By the way, if anyone would like to trade what I think is an M21 Muncie for a Tremec TKO 5-spd or an M20 wide-ratio 4-spd, I'd be very interested. This car has a 4.88:1 rear and a close ratio trans and needless to say it's not much fun to cruise around. Be advised my shift post seals are leaking slightly.

Thank,
Sean
 
Sorry to hear you are having issues with shops. The 3885010 number was used from 66 to 67. What makes you think the transmission is an M21?
http://chevellestuff.net/qd/muncie.htm
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melsg5 said:
Sorry to hear you are having issues with shops. The 3885010 number was used from 66 to 67. What makes you think the transmission is an M21?
http://chevellestuff.net/qd/muncie.htm
Click to expand...


I recall riding in a Camaro with a Rock Crusher M22 and my trans doesn't make anywhere near that kind of noise. It is a close ratio but I believe it to be too quiet to be an M22.
 
melsg5 said:
Sorry to hear you are having issues with shops. The 3885010 number was used from 66 to 67. What makes you think the transmission is an M21?
http://chevellestuff.net/qd/muncie.htm
Click to expand...

I recall riding in a Camaro with a Rock Crusher and my trans is nowhere near as noisy. It is a close ratio but I believe it's much too quite to be an M22. I'm also under the impression that the M20 is a wide ratio, M21's and M22's are both close ratio transmissions but the 22 has straight cut gears making it stronger but more noisy.

Thanks,
Sean
 
I recall riding in a Camaro with a Rock Crusher and my trans is nowhere near as noisy. It is a close ratio but I believe it's much too quite to be an M22. I'm also under the impression that the M20 is a wide ratio, M21's and M22's are both close ratio transmissions but the 22 has straight cut gears making it stronger but more noisy.

Thanks,
Sean
 
I do have a M20 out of a 74 Chevy, but I think the shipping costs would kill the deal.
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It was rebuilt 20 years ago and never ran in a car so it is a fresh rebuild just install it and add oil, but seeing that yours has some miles on it I am OK with the straight swap, but I am not willing to pay any shipping. Sorry. I can sell it locally for a lot less hassle.

Just being truthful no insult intended,
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