Please consider whitelisting my site in your ad blocker. If you must keep it running here, please support this endeavor and select a support plan - which starts at only $0.16 cents per day. I'm not asking for much. I just need a little help. Thank you. Click here to select a support plan.
I still can't get it to shift. There are a lot of bubbles in the system. I've got a few different ideas on this. When I put the mastercylinder I didn't bench bleed it because it was midnight and I figured a power bleed will do the same thing. well I think that the clutch pedal not going in all the way may be the cause of not getting all the air out.
Here is a bleed procedure written by V-8 Archie for when he does auto to manual swaps at his shop:
Clutch bleeding prodeedure
You can do it your way, But this method always works for me.
After checking to be sure there are no leaks in the Clutch Hydraulic system.
Complete ALL of the following steps before test driving the car:
1) Install a helper in the drivers seat to push in and let out the clutch pedal on command.
2) Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder reservoir.
3) Top off fluid in the reservoir.
4) During the course of this procedure DO NOT allow the "helper" to "pump" the pedal. The "helper" is to depress and release the pedal on command only, DO NOT PUMP THE PEDAL. (See theory below)
5) You will be opening and closing the bleed screw on the slave cylinder as instructed below. CAUTION: During this procedure protect your eyes from squirting brake fluid.
6) (Helper) Press clutch pedal in fully and hold.
7) (You) Open the bleed screw to allow fluid to escape.
8) (You) Close bleed screw.
9) (Helper) Release pedal completely
10) (You) Top off fluid in reservoir.
11) Repeat steps #6 thru #10 no less than 5 times before going to #12 below. NO PUMPING!
12) You have now bled the Master Cylinder and the hydraulic line. YOU ARE NOT DONE YET!!!!! We must now bleed the Slave cylinder. (This is what the manual doesn’t tell you)
13) With no further action to be done with the clutch pedal, you can now remove the "helper" from the drivers seat and have him (her/it) help you do the following.
14) After topping off the Master Cylinder, completely remove the bleed screw from the slave cylinder.
15) Have the "helper" stand at the ready with the bleed screw and the appropriate wrench for installing the bleed screw.
16) PROTECT YOUR EYES!
17) With the bleed screw removed. With both hands grab the push rod coming out of the slave cylinder and push it into the slave cylinder as far as it will go AND HOLD it in.
18) Your "helper" will now install and tighten the bleed screw while you hold the plunger in.
19) When bleed screw is tight release the rod and as it comes out guide it into the proper position on the clutch arm.
20) Top off the Reservoir and the job is complete.
Here is some more info from his website: This information will be updated from time to time and reposted, I have made provisions that it be passed along upon my demise. Submissions for inclusion in this list are encouraged. Please send them to Archie@v8archie.com
The symptoms:
A) The car moving when starting the engine with the trans. in gear and the clutch pushed in.
B) Hard to shift into reverse or 1st. with the engine running.
C) You say: "I just put a new clutch in and it still don't work right."
D) You can get in gear but it grinds.
E) You push the pedal all the way to the floor to engage.
What to look for:
1) Obvious leaks: You can't expect it to work if you have a puddle on the floor!
2) Is it bled properly?: You can put in a new pedal or replace all the parts, but if you bleed it the way the books tell you it'll never work. Proper bleeding procedure? See Archism #4 previously posted.
3) Do you have the steel pedal?: IMHO 95% of the above symptoms are caused by the Aluminum pedal. If you want your new clutch to last a long time, or your old one to last longer, check the clutch pedal. 1984 thru 1986 originally had aluminum pedals and they have an inherent design flaw. If you have the alum. pedal I HIGHLY recommend replacing it with the steel pedal PN 10066423.
4) You have the steel pedal, & still have the symptoms: Check this note: Some factory built '87 & '88 Fieros were miss-assembled and the banjo was put onto the pedal up-side-down. Make sure your banjo is mounted with the loop UP as described in #13 of Archism #6. Also: I have seen a few cases where the factory installed steel pedal had a similar problem (to the aluminum pedal) and when replaced with a new steel pedal the problem was cured (I feel this would be quite rare, but even GM is not perfect). In addition check for other cures in the hydraulic system below.
5) You've checked the above problems and are still looking for a cure: Your problem could still be a leak!!! Carefully peel back the carpeting and inspect as per my suggestion to the list in Feb. 1997 Where I suspected a master cylinder leak "You see, the fluid leaks around the piston into the boot then runs out of the boot down behind the carpeting in the drivers side foot well. The only way to discover this type of leak, aside from removing the carpet, is to look/feel for fluid under the carpet in the area where the master cylinder enters the passenger compartment." In all cases of a leak and some cases of air in the system an observation can be made. With a helper in the car have him push the pedal in all the way and hold it while you closely observe the clutch arm (in the engine compartment). As the pedal is depressed you will see the arm moving toward the engine, hold the pedal in and closely observe the arm. Does it retain it's position or does it slowly begin to return (move away from the engine) observe for at least a full minute. If it does start to return you've got a LEAK SOMEWHERE or a lot of air in the system.
6) If you are always "topping off" the reservoir on the clutch master cylinder and you've read this far then you missed something.....you've got a leak somewhere.
OBSERVATIONS I HAVE MADE ON THE WAY TO SOMEWHERE ELSE
A) Pontiac owners manual states that the Fiero clutch is self adjusting. In truth it is not adjustable.
B) The bore size of the Master Cylinder and the Slave Cylinder is the same size, except the Getrag Slave has a bit larger bore. Don’t use an Isuzu Slave on a Getrag because the TOB will overtravel.
C) Through one full stroke of the clutch pedal the piston in the Master Cylinder moves 1.20" Maximum (a little less than that on a Getrag).
D) Because of C) the maximum travel of the piston in the bore of the slave cylinder is 1.20"
E) To properly operate the stock Fiero Clutch you need 1.15" of travel in the hydraulic system to properly engage and dis-engage the clutch.
F) Because of E) any inefficiency in the operation of the total system, (I.E. leaks or bad pedal or banjo on upside down) will cause one or more of the symptoms listed in the start of this posting.
G) The Fiero Master cylinder has a "bleed back hole" inside of it. This feature relieves line pressure when the pedal is all the way out thus preventing the T.O. Brg. From riding against the clutch while engaged.
H) Because of G) changing the length on the slave cylinder shaft (runs between the slave and the clutch arm) will not correct any of our symptoms.
I) The act of changing the length on the slave cylinder shaft has only one effect on the operation of the system. That is that it changes the relative position of the beginning and ending points of the piston travel in the slave cylinder bore it will not change it's efficiency.
J) Too long of a shaft will cause the piston to "bottom out" in the back of the slave bore making the pedal not return to it's full up position and thus not allowing the "bleed back hole" to do it's job .
K) Too short of a shaft will cause the piston to run into it's stop (a snap ring) at the end of the bore. If the piston reaches the end of the bore before the pedal is fully depressed the banjo will bend, a bad thing. So change the length of that shaft knowing that the only thing it will do is to move the operational stroke of the slave cylinder piston to a different area of the cylinder bore.
L) No amount of praying will make a ruined clutch work any better, although it might get you home.
M) Replacement of the stamped steel clutch arm on the transmission with the cast one is way over rated. While its being replaced will not hurt anything. I have only seen bad ones on about 3% of the cars I have worked on.
N) While some advocate replacement of the master and slave cylinders. I highly recommend replacement after trying all the other ideas in these Archism’s.
O) Oh!!! Did I mention that having the banjo mounted upside down screws up the geometry, thus negating the effects of B), C), D) & E).
P) Another problem I've seen, is loose or missing transmission to engine attaching bolts. Believe it or not a couple of loose bolts will cause our discussed symptoms.
Q) Also check the slave cylinder mounting to ensure that the slave cylinder is not moving or flexing on it's mounts.
Well I'm sure that doesn't cover everything, but I'm getting tired of pecking for now.
If you have any questions, requests or submissions address them to Archie@v8archie.com
Archie
adding this other link to this I have found in case it is the pedal and you do need to replace it like I believe I do then this will probably come in helpful down the road.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
