Engine rebuild. Over heating.

Philpett1996

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Hello 👋
I have recently had my 1969 firebird 400 rebuilt and am having issues with keeping it cool. Along with the rebuild we have run a slightly bigger cam which does generate a bit more heat but the gauge now reads upwards of 230-240 degrees Fahrenheit. The motor isn’t completely broken in yet and the guy that rebuilt it only used water in the radiator(is that something they do? Idk.). So I’ve changed the coolant out for standard long life coolant and it’s running ok but still high at times and is purging coolant out when I turn the car off. Is there something I’m not thinking of? Or is The motor still too tight from the rebuild?
 
How hot did it run before the rebuild?
What temperature thermostat is in it now?
What is the initial timing set to?
Do you have the vacuum advance connected to a port that produces vacuum at idle?
Was the builder aware of setting the correct clearance for the water pump divider plate?
 
Melsg5.
The motor ran around 180 - 195 before rebuild.
I believe it’s running a 160 thermostat.
I don’t know about the timing.
Not sure about vacuum advance either.
I believe he was aware of the clearance for the water pump.
 
Well pull the thermostat and check it in a pot of water bringing it slowly to a boil. If it's a working 160 it should be full open by the time you see bubbles.
You will have to rent or buy a timing light or take it back to the builder or a shop.
You have to ask the builder about the pump.
______________________________
 
Also what impeller does the water pump have on it? Most inexpensive rebuilds have stamped metal impellers, they do not work well on a Pontiac V8, they don't move the coolant volume the stock canst impellers do, and you can't set the impeller to backing plate clearance correctly. Also early or late 1969 timing cover and pump? And were the transfer tubes and seals behind the water pump backing plate changed?
One last thing what cooling fan are you running? Did you keep the stock fan? and does it have the same spacing to the radiator?
 
Also what impeller does the water pump have on it? Most inexpensive rebuilds have stamped metal impellers, they do not work well on a Pontiac V8, they don't move the coolant volume the stock canst impellers do, and you can't set the impeller to backing plate clearance correctly. Also early or late 1969 timing cover and pump? And were the transfer tubes and seals behind the water pump backing plate changed?
One last thing what cooling fan are you running? Did you keep the stock fan? and does it have the same spacing to the radiator?
Cammerjeff
The cooling system is all original. Solid fan. And the spacing is correct. I’m not sure if the seals and transfer tubes where replaced. I didn’t know there was a difference in later and earlier pump and timing setups. All I can say is the guy that did the job for me has not given me much info and just gave the car back with more problems.
Thanks
Phil
 
Well pull the thermostat and check it in a pot of water bringing it slowly to a boil. If it's a working 160 it should be full open by the time you see bubbles.
You will have to rent or buy a timing light or take it back to the builder or a shop.
You have to ask the builder about the pump.
I’ve checked the thermostat in that very way and it opens right on the time it should. He’s told me that the water pump clearance is correct but I’m having doubts about his capabilities.
Thanks again
Phil
 
Then check the timing both initial and the hose going to the vacuum advance.
Does it run hot at idle or when moving or both situations?
Do you have a fan clutch?
______________________________
 
Some pictures would help of the timing cover/water pump area, fan to radiator clearance ect..... Also check to see if the lower radiator hose collapses when the engine gets up to temperture, Its been along time but back in the 1990's I had a couple of friends that had overheating issues and it was the lower hose collapsing cutting off the coolant flow when the engine warmed up. Both had to put a spring in the lower hose to prevent it.
 
I would check the lower hose maybe the coil fell out when removed, It just might need a new radiator. All my cars ran hot I swapped them out to aluminum radaitors with a overflow containers that did the trick.
 
All the thermostat does is get the coolant temp up to the specified temperature before letting the full cooling system go to work. As an example, the factory issued thermostat for my 1970 GTO was a 195 degree unit. GM engines from the period can and do run warm with operating temps as high a 200 - 205 considered normal. Most modern engines (at least in the GM camp) that run electric fans, the fans don't activate until around 220 degrees. Pontiacs being the critters they are, it's good that the builder knew enough to clearance the water pump separator plate. Without looking, we don't know how close he actually got it. In my case, for example, I got the plate to impeller clearance down to about .050 without using a gasket. That way, when I assembled it with the gasket, I was assured there would be no physical contact while having the best flow possible.

Yes, there is a difference in performance between the stamped and cast impellers, but as long as the separator plate is clearanced, and the transfer tubes & o-rings are in good condition. coolant flow should be adequate for the task. Freshly rebuilt engines do run a little warmer during break-in but, in your case, I would agree that 235-240 is excessive and some sort of action is called for.

All else being equal, the coolant temps one sees are influenced by either cooling system capacity and/or air flow. So, let's look at those. Let's assume that your stock radiator is in good condition and the appropriate model for your car. If your rebuilt engine is the same size as before (except for any over-bore), capacity should be adequate. This leaves us with airflow.

In my opinion, there's no substitute for a good 7-blade clutch fan coupled with the factory radiator shroud. Such a setup pulls air like crazy. The only other thing to consider is any air that may be getting around the fan/radiator somehow. For example, my GTO has a cover plate that bolts to the radiator core support and covers the area between the core support and the back of the Endura bumper. This forces all the air coming in through the grille to pass through the radiator and not come over the top by the latch and escape into the engine bay.

So, the items to check are: 1) water pump and separator plate clearance. 2) Water pump transfer tube and o-ring condition. 3) Appropriately sized radiator in good condition. 4) Quality clutch fan and shroud. 5) Sealed air flow channel forward of the radiator to the grille openings.

Regarding the radiator overflow. Once the temps are under control, this should not be an issue as long as the radiator is filled appropriately. Most cars of the vintage like yours and mine did not use a coolant overflow catch can. Instead of topping off the radiator, the factory manuals show that the radiator fill level is usually about 3 inches below the filler neck. My radiator actually has a fill level line stamped into the side of the radiator tank, below the filler neck.

I hope you find this information helpful, and your heating issues get resolved so you can enjoy your new engine in the upcoming cruise season! Please let us know how you make out.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top