Other transmission swap leads to other car.

[1980Esprit]

Alright, today we went to look at the another TA. The reason we found this car is because we had been looking around for a transmission to put into our 80 TA. (We have a 400 pontiac, we needed a different transmission for) We phoned around and this guy said he did not have an auto tranny for us, but said he had an 81 TA with 4 speed. (Manual.. YAY!)

He would not sell just the transmission but only the whole car. One thing leads to another.



Here`s the story on it

VIN: 1G2AW87H5BN117404

Car has grey exterior/black interior. Hardtop, 4 speed BW ST-10/no motor. Everything is there except the motor, rad, and a couple of interior pieces. It has had new rockers, new rear quarters, door skins, and lower front fenders replaced with brand new panels. Only needs floors. It was in better shape than we had thought. Car had been painted maybe 7 years ago they said, original color was blue. Car looks great at 5-10 feet away, except there are runs in the paint. Has a few dents in the doors but that is it. Car was original with a 305 and auto; says the emissions sticker in engine bay. I looked up production numbers for TA hardtop 305 and it only shows numbers for the 4 speed. (Not sure if the 4 speed is original or not though), and has a blank space for the auto-m`s production number. Hardtop TA with 305/4 speed is 2,866. Probably order PHS anyway if we buy the car.


The trans (4 speed) we were going to get would have been put into the 80 pace car we own. That trans would go with our motor we built for it. We got thinking a bit later; why dont we put our 400 into the parts car with NO motor in it right now. It would make this car we looked at a regular trans am with 400/4 speed. This would mean we can keep 100% original drive train in the pace car with no mods. We could do anything with this other TA we looked at.

Originally we were going to use the 1981 trans am as a parts car and for transmission to put on our 1980 pace car. The car is $2300, but we could make 2 nice trans ams with everything we have with this 81 TA.

Pace car would retain 301 turbo/auto
81 TA would get 400/4 speed.

Have a couple questions on this new car.

-Were there any 305/autos produced in 1981 for TA?
-My cowl tag says its a firebird-firebird but vin states it is a firebird-trans am. Whats up?
I was thinking they switched the cowl tag but it also shows that it is a 1981 firebird, with blue exterior and originaly had blue interior. Both showed they were made in Norwood. I know car was original blue because inside of the doors is blue (I seen inside because door panels were off) Car had everything that a Trans am would have. shaker hood, black tailights, rally gauges, silver machined backplate for gauge housing,

 

[1980Esprit]

More pics..

 

[ninja]

the pics look good. not a bad buy especially with the tranny.

 

[melsg5]

1.Were there any 305/autos produced in 1981 for TA? The 305 was a 4 speed only option.
2. My cowl tag says its a firebird-firebird but vin states it is a firebird-trans am. Whats up? As you stated the VIN matches the reguirements for 305 trans am, no picture of your cowl tag so not sure what you are looking at.

______________________________

 

[1980Esprit]

Here are the numbers I wrote down. May have a number or two which may be why. Cant get a picture of the cowl plate because it is 4 hours north of us. The guy owns a salvage yard but does not own computer/camera. Might have a number or space misplaced, but that is what I had wrote down. Help with decoding? I tried with a website but am confused about it.

B 03E 2FS87 N 194774
263 20L 2OU L
ASL
WS4 A31 BU2
330207

I looked up the VIN, and it said it had manual belts restraint system? What is this?

Here is picture that says it has a 305, but shows auto on the right side. Maybe they all just came with the auto on the sticker??

Second picture are some numbers on the side of the case of the Super t-10. I am going to assume that it is from 1981 as original. Heard this year would have been the one with the 3.42 1st gear. I have read that the 305/4 speeds came with a 2.56 rear gear. If this is true, than my gearing would be lower (numerically higher) than my 3.08 with th350.

Here are the ratios for both.

2.56 rear with 4 speed (With 3.42 1st): 5.98:1 1st, 4.84:12nd, 4.02:1 3rd, 2.56:1 4th.

3.08 rear with th350: 5.6:1 1st, 4.6:1 2nd, 3.08 3rd.

I believe it would be at 2.1k at 65mph. Th350 would be around 2.5 at 65mph.

 

[melsg5]

OK, forgot about the Canada difference, see the attached link, 305 with automatic. So that may not be the original trani for the car based on the emissions sticker.
Manual belts mean you have to buckle them as opposed to a motor sliding the belt into position after you get in.


http://www.transammuseum.com/1981_Pontiac_Pontiac_148815427.veh

 

[92 Sunbird LE]

B 03E 2FS87 N 194774
263 20L 2OU L
ASL
WS4 A31 BU2
330207

.

B = 1981

03E = Built March 1981 5th week of the month

2FS87 = Pontiac Firebird, Firebird 2 Door Coupe

N = Norwood , Ohio Plant

26B = Dark Blue Cloth Interior

20L - "Vibrant Blue " Lacquer Paint ( lower)

20UL - "Vibrant Blue" Lacquer Paint ( upper)

194774 = Fisher Body Number

330207 = Fisher Body Date and Time Number

A31 = Power Windows

WS4 = Trans Am

BU2 = not found

Doug In P.R.

 

[92 Sunbird LE]

______________________________

 

[92 Sunbird LE]

Looked like this exactly ( with blue interior)


http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/events/hppp_0605_2005_all_firebird_lawn/photo_10.html

Doug in P.R.

 

[1980Esprit]

Right on. I did not think it was original 4 speed just by looking around on the car. Any production numbers on these? I cannot seem to find very many at all with the 305 auto on the web.
I will look around and see what I can find.
That blue definitely does not suit me. I like the gray way better!

 

[92 Sunbird LE]

"As had been witnessed with the 1980 offering, small displacement engines were the order of the day. The choices were the 4.9L T/A Pontiac V8, the Chevrolet 5.0L V8 and the highly desirable 4.9L Turbocharged Pontiac V8. The big V8's were gone, never to return, but one performance icon from as far back as performance cars came from returned- The 4-Speed. The 4-speed was teamed up with only one engine, the Chevrolet 5.0L"

More Here:

http://www.oldcarmemories.com/content/view/122/113/

All I can find is all Trans Am 305's came with a 4 Speed. It was a $140 delete option if you ordered it.

Another place says 3,538 305 with auto made.

Only PHS or GM of Canada will tell you what you want to know....


Build sheet on the car is in the front seat back or under the seat or on top of the gas tank.

Doug in P.R.

 

[92 Sunbird LE]

This will help on your BW ST10 4 Speed info you need:

"There are several facts that need to get cleared up. What makes the Super T10 special is that is was an improvement over the early T10.

There are 2 Versions. 1st Design and 2nd Design.

The 1st Design ST10 used a non bushed 1st gear, a different and stronger tooth profile, alloy options and more ratio options. 7/8" Countershaft. Shifter shafts now use seals as opposed to O rings which create stress risers. It was the same length as the early T10.

The first design was offered in Ford, AMC and YES GM applications PRE 1975. The first design ST10 was available in early 1970's GMC trucks, with a 3.44 ratio only.

The "over the counter" 1st design ST10 for GM used a 10 spline input and 27 spline output shaft as well as an Iron main case. Some versions came with Iron extensions. Some if ordered came with 9310 Nickel gears. These are documented and photgraphed in my book.

The 2nd design "over the counter" was a GM application only, with an iron case, aluminum tail, and alloy mid plate. Ratio and alloy options were available. The spline count went from 10 to 26 on the input and 27 to 32 on the output. 1st gear now was bushed. Countershaft was changed to 1". The length was changed to match the GM later HD Muncies.

The 2nd design GM based ST10 also now sold new by Richmond gear was basically issued when power levels dropped ( 1975 - 1982 ) ( 4+3 1984-88 Vettes) It did come with Iron cases and mid sections only to beef up weaker 3.42 1st gear units in 1981 Z-28 applications.

Its a big design improvement over the early T10, but in no way as strong or engineered as well as the new breed of Muncie replacements offered by Autogear."

More depth with date codes:

http://www.pontiacpower.org/BW.htm

Doug in P.R.

______________________________

 

[1980Esprit]

If we happen to buy the car, we would be getting the PHS. Also have to look into the GM Canada certification onto both this car and our other one. I have found all American cars came with 305/4 speed, and Canadian cars came only with auto.

Kind of interesting that if we get this one as well, that we would have 2 relatively rare TA. First is 1/5700 produced (Canadian car as well, so want to find out how many were sold in Canada), and other is probably around 3000-4000 made.

I like the looks of the hard top a little better personally, but the tops are fun in summer. Like I had said before, I think when we get this car that we will put our 400 into it and rebuild the borg warner. Fix the rust in floors, and get it to pass safety. Might have 2 cars running for this summer

Car had been driven up until maybe a year ago when the motor blew. Car was just sitting in the salvage yard because mostly he does not advertise so no one would know about the car! I don`t think it would need a whole lot for to pass safety. Probably just brakes, and maybe a bulb or 2. Some wiring as well.

I also think no one has bought it because from where I live; 1 1/4 hours north from usa border, we have to drive 4 hours straight north. Here in Canada that gets real close to the Canadian Shield. Not many people live that far north, especially wanting to buy a classic car for that matter!