01 Aztek AWD Disable

TollKeeper

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So my wife loves her Aztek. its not a bad car. But not for me. But I have to work on it. YAY! LOL

Anyways. First time poster, and after using the search feature, I am not finding anything that specificly applies to what I have going on.

Car: 2001 Pontiac Aztek GT OPT AWD with 109k miles

I have had a random AWD disable light on for a few years. it only comes on in the winter, and only after I have signifigant front wheel slippage.

Things replaced/repaired:
I have rewired the C305 connecter as I know it is a problem spot for these cars.
I have also replaced the rear diff fluid with GM Versatrak fluid.
I have also replaced the rear diff actuator.
I also replaced the tires to a new matched set (old set was also matched).

None of these fixes have done anything in keeping this light off. I also know its not a overheating issue as I had it turn on as I was pulling out of my driveway onto the snowpacked road. Engine was cold, and so was diff (IE was 10F out). I have no ABS light on. I have no rear end noises. ABS system works perfectly.

And I am also out of ideas on what to try next....

Any ideas here?
 
Have you checked the factory technical service bulletins for any information regarding this problem.
It sounds like your vehicle has been well maintained, and most of the obvious stuff has been checked.
Like battery connections, ground connections,fuses, previous repair to the system your having a problem with.ETC

If I had to repair your car, I would start by connecting a good scanner with live data read out. set it to record mode recording each wheel speed sensor.

if nothing jumped out at me I would dive in to the numerous TSBs and see if anything was addressed for the AWD system, traction control or any other related system.

The cold weather your speaking of must be real cold weather not like what I experience in Florida, This may lead me to suspect a part with a printed circuit board that may have bad solder connections.

here is a link to what I am talking about if you have never played around with repairing printed circuit boards.

http://www.q45.org/timers.html

I have had much success in the past when my diagnostics led me to a expensive electronic item ECM BCM module relay etc where I had the choice to install a expensive part and hope that part fixes it.

Or take that item apart inspecting it closely with very large lighted magnifying glass. and checking it closely for cold solder joints ( AKA bad solder connections)

Typically these faulty connections will do like your experiencing, in warmer weather the solder is slightly larger making a better connection, in cold weather the solder will shrink some rearing its ugly head.

If you scroll down on the link I provided you will see some module this guy has taken apart I am not even sure what it is he is working on or how he repairs the bad connections. I provided this link because he took some good shots of the bad connections I am speaking of.

What your looking for on the back of the PCB (printed circuit board ) where the electronics, resistors capacitors etc penetrate the board when installed each connector is soldered using a solder bath technology and the excess leads are trimmed off, your are left with a mini hershy kiss shaped ball of solder surrounding the wire, poking through the board connecting the board to the part with this ball of solder.

After time of heating and cooling of the circuit adding vibrations to the mix, the less than desirable not hand soldered connection will fail.

leaving a fine hair line crack all the way around the ball of solder. easily seen in some of the pictures if you cannot easily find these pictures let me know and I will post just one picture with the bad connections.

normally if your lucky and catch it at the stage where the problem is intermittent you can re solder these bad connectors and not likely have the problem again and not spend more than a few bucks on the repair.

Most people will wait until the problem gets worse or become permanent, if this happens the bad connection with the added resistance to the circuit will heat up the board where the bad connections are resulting in burnt parts, sometimes a cheap resistor or capacitor that can be easily found and replaced. other times the parts are propitiatory and can only be purchased in bulk by a authorized service center or manufacturer.

The key here is, fix this problem before it becomes permanent and expensive.

The hard part is which part do you check for these bad connections?

This is where things have to remain simple and do not over complicate the problem or make new problems while diagnosing the problem.

Do not misread what I am saying I am not jumping to the conclusion that your problem is a bad solder connection but the symptoms make me think of the hundreds of parts I did repair both from the automotive field and electronic repair field.

If I haven't lost you by now and we are on the same page, great.

Some how some way we have to determine which tooth to pull.

So like I said earlier start with checking the computer with a good scan tool for anything obvious, this will require more than just a code reader.

If this is not in your budget or technical abilities, it will be much harder for you but not impossible.

without the proper scan tool, you have to research the TSBs that I mentioned earlier.
if you find anything close to the problem your experiencing this will give you an idea where to start looking.

If the TSBs have nothing even close to your reported problem, I would disconnect the battery remove each and every fuse from the fuse box one by one clean the bladed of the fuse and reinsert it. same thing with each and every relay. It doesn't matter if the fuse is labeled rear tail lights clean it anyways.
Next with the battery still disconnected check the switch if there is one to turn the AWD system off. cycle it a few times does it engage disengage properly? check all the wiring harness connectors that you can get to especially ones that have been removed or would have been removed during servicing or repairs that have been done.

you would be looking for connectors that have broken retaining clips at the connectors and are not plugged in properly.

Normally I would suggest a wiggle test to see if you can duplicate the problem by wiggling on wires and tapping on computers and modules etc.

Yet I am not sure how you would do this while driving.

Let me make myself perfectly clear before you attempt any of what I have said, I have never ever opened up a hood of your, year make model car that I can remember , at least for nothing more than basic service, because I stopped working on cars when your car was still fairly new and wouldn't have had these problems yet.

I will help more but I want you to read all of this, and if your willing to go further I will as well. Continued on second post this is too long for one post LOL
 
Yet none of what I have mentioned so far does not replace going by the diagnostic flow chart Found in a factory service manual. however with your problem being intermittent it will be a bastard to track down unless you get lucky and have all the correct diagnostic tools with two way communication where you can check driver circuits and duplicate the problem in a controlled environment.

a tip here is lets say all the diagnostics you have performed have led you to believe that a expensive multi-function modal is suspect.

Simply call up any busy GM dealership and ask them if they have the part on hand, ask them if they have ever sold one, also ask them how many they have sold in the last 5 years. if they say none. Your barking up the wrong tree most likely.

If your still not having luck getting close to a solution, referee to the factory service manual,read all you can about the systems in your vehicle that are computer controlled and work the AWD system, traction control, etc.

Go to a junk yard and find some if not all of those pieces if they are affordable.

take them apart using the proper anti static devices and mats, using a very large magnifying glass inspect the solder connections all of them.

if you have access to a small lcd tv and a camcorder with macro, even better because you can zoom in on these connections and record what each and every single connector looks like.

With good soldering iron and a fine tip, practice soldering all the bad connections, to do this right it is time consuming and will require boat loads of patience.

Some tech will tell you to un-solder the joint removing any and all traces of the old solder. clean the board then re solder the connector with fresh solder.

unless your going to keep the car for a million miles and have forever, just solder the obvious bad connections with very fine grade solder adding only the amount of solder you need to make a good connection without bridging the connection to another using too much solder.

If the board has many bad connections, all close together you will have to move around the board randomly picking joints that are far away from each other while allowing the board and parts to cool.

Just like welding on a thin car fender to much heat in one spot will fry parts and lift the circuit paths off the board.

this is why your working on a used part from the junk yard.

You will have to look very close at the connections sometimes a hair line crack is so small it looks like a shadow. others will be obvious.

if you do this procedure on each and every part on your car that has a printed circuit board related to the problem and do not cause further damaged by bridging connections together. there is a very good chance you will have fixed the problem.

But only you will know this by viewing the bad connections for yourself.

if you get these used parts from the junk yard and open them up and do not find even once bad connection. that is OK too. Just leave them alone put them back together and keep them for spare parts. or sell them on ebay more much more than you paid.

if you get to a part that contains a VLSIC (Very large scale integrated circuit) or many surface mounted tiny parts mounted to a multi layered printed circuit board. do not solder it.

take pictures or video of the board and any connection you may think is suspect. and I will try and find a specialist that can handle such work.

The only kind of soldering you should attempt is on a single layer PCB.

and only solder the practice piece then post pictures of your handy work.

Myself and a few others here can look it over and see if that part will be safe to use.

I have always been comfortable working on cars it took years of my brother egging me on to stop diagnosing and hanging parts and repair the parts as well.

yet when I started I enjoyed a learning curve where a GM car had one computer and a Prom chip that could be swapped out for a performance chip or an updated one by the factory that has new programs written on it to cure known issues.

the early days of computers in cars were barbaric compared to what is in your car, yet the very things that plagued the cars of yesterday are still present in modern cars.

Today's cars these circuits have been made much smaller possibly too small for the average Joe to repair.

if the modern cars ecms and bcms etc are like today's Motherboards in laptops and desktops you will not likely find bad solder connections in them
but you may in modals and relays and switches.

Please read all of this absorb it and decide if this is the type of repair you want to get involved in. or hand your key over to a parts hanger at a dealer who will swap one part after another chasing your intermittent problem.
 
Well I apreciate your input, I hate working on electronics. Mechanicals I can handle, cause usually it is pretty evident by my nearly blind eyes, what the problem is. PCB or ICPCB's, or whatever else they call them, its just way to much for me. And yes, I did read it all. Love reading about the tech bits, and I am a computer tech. But working on the intricutes of the board itself... Honey, what was the number to that repair shop?

On a second thought, I had the BCM replaced just 3 years ago under warrenty, and reprogrammed. Was for a diferent issue. But thought I would mention it just in case it helps anyone with their process of helping me on this.

I am wondering how much input a TCM has on the AWD Versatrak system?
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this may or may not help, I found this on another site.

I have 2002 with same problem regarding AWD / ABS Disable, etc.

For mine, it is the wheel speed sensor on driver side front. About every 4 or 5 months I have to disconnect the sensor, clean it real good, reattach and it is good to go for another 4 or 5 months. Easy, cheap fix.
 
and another

Date: Sat Oct 6 17:00:40 PDT 2007
Subject: 4T65E, AWD Disable Light On No Codes
Vehicle: 2004 Buick Rendezvous
Posted Fix: Replaced the Clutch Pump Check Valve In Rear Diff
Problem / Fix: We have seen 2 of these with the same problem. The other was a Pontiac Aztek. It may be a common know fault, but we don't see many AWDs here so I thought I would post it. The vehicle works fine, but the AWD Disable light is on, and of course there is no power flow to the rear wheels. There are no codes even using the Tech2 and looking at the data nothing looks out of order except the AWD parameter is set to disable. The light on the dash is lite saying AWD Disable. If you have this problem drain the rear diff and pull the Clutch pump check valve out of the diff. It is pretty easy to tell it is broken just by looking at it. Not a big deal to replace and seems to be a common problem.

Dan Tucker - Tucker's Transmission

TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (0 | 31)
 
Yeah, already replaced that part. Was the easiest thing to do, and i needed to do a rear dif service anyways.
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you replaced the part but did you completely clean the housing and all internal parts?

Was the original screen blocked with debris?

It may not hurt to pluck it out and inspect the screen.

Also did you buy this part from a GM dealer that made sure to check the TSBs for a updated part number.

My definition of New is ( NEVER EVER WORKS ) in my opinion it is worth revisiting along with all four wheel speed sensors.

These are magnetic and metal shavings and other ferrous debris has a way of finding and sticking to it.

Well that is all I can think of that may help.

It seems this is one of the many factory deficiency these cars have. either GM found the issue and redesigned updated parts or computer upgrades to cure or mask the problem or they didn't.

A factory service manual or online subscription may prove very valuable to you
Mitchell 1 diy is like 15 bucks alldata is 30 bucks for the year.

After the cash you have tossed at this problem so far either of the two online data sources is chump change and where you probably should have started with.

Just my opinion.
I wish I had the answer, the quick and easy plus cheap fix yet I do not and I am sure the rest of the lost souls here do not either.

So if in your travels you get lucky and fix this problem. be kind enough to share what you found the problem to be.
 
I do really apreciate the input, it can be quite fustrating dealing with problems like these. And sometimes the dealer is as useless as someone that has no mechanical knoledge.

I used to own a 1989 Pontiac 6000 STE All Wheel Drive. Every dealer I took that car to said the car didnt exist, and they would physically have to go out and look under the car before they would beleive me. Finding parts for this car was always a challenge. But I digress....

I "washed" out the rear diff as best I could. Its not like a normal differential housing where you can remove the back cover, and go to town on it. Its a sealed unit, and the only way to get at the internal area is to take it completely apart, and that means removing the diff physically from the car and its corresponding carrier plate, and take it comepletely apart. What I did was to drain the fluid, put new fluid in, drive it for a bit, and drain the fluid again, and put new in again, while replacing the sensor.

The old screen was not clogged, I still have it sitting on my shelf. I cant find any technical bits about it, so I cant OHM it out to see if the old sensor is good or bad, and hence I cant do it on the new sensor either. I bought the sensor from a GM dealer, and their has not been a revision that I know of, or that the dealer knows of, since being built.

I am going to swing by a dealer and see if their is a update to the TCM or ECM, or any related items, that may need updating. I know you need a TECH2 system to do this type of work, so its nothing I can do at home.

The only other thing I can think of being the problem is the rear diff clutch packs. This car spent the majority of its life in Georgia with its previous owner, and my wife has had it the last 55k miles, while living in Missouri. Not parts of the country where AWD systems get a work out, or even worked at all. Now we are in Colorado...

The rear diff clutch packs are rather pricey, and I have been told previously that you have to replace the whole rear end peice, to the tune of 2000 dollars in parts. OUCH! And thats just a rebuilt unit, not new.
 
Wow, had completely forgot I was a member of this site, am thinking about buying a Grand Am, and here I am!

So update on the Aztek. I went junk yard hoping last year, and I found a low mileage wrecked Aztek AWD. I pulled the drain plug on the diff, and the fluid was as clean as something that comes out of the bottle. So I pulled the diff, and earlier this year, put it in. So far no AWD Disable lights, nothing.

I pulled the old diff apart, and it appears is if the clutch pack had exploded. When I talked to the old owner of the Aztek, she said the dealer also could never figure it out, and by the she started to worry about it, warranty was gone. So maybe the clutch pack was bad from the manufacture?
 
Almost 4 years, might be a record. When you drained the old fluid out, you didnt see lots of metal?
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