2002 Grand Am Clutch Thread

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Jwilder

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Hi all. New to the forum here.

My sister has a 2002 Grand Am SE that she purchased about 6 months ago. Everything on this car has been wonderful and it's super fun to drive...up until a week ago.

As she was leaving a shopping mall to return home, the clutch pedal stuck to the floor when coming out of the parking lot. Upon returning it to the upright position, I pressed it down again, and again it stuck to the floor.

Upon further inspection I saw clutch fluid leaking from the bottom inspection hole in the bell housing. Once I determined how these transmissions are designed with the release bearing and slave cylinder as one piece, I concluded that the slave cylinder had developed a major leak and required replacement.

I'm in the middle of removing the transmission at the moment and will be doing a full on clutch replacement to also include new slave and master cylinders. I also removed the clutch master cylinder thinking it might be that. When I pushed in on the piston in the clutch master cylinder, it does not self return. This leads me to conclude that the clutch master cylinder does not have its own return spring in it and thus relies on back pressure supplied by the pressure plate upon releasing the pedal to push fluid back up to the master cylinder in order to return its piston to the non-pressed position. This means that the system must be full of fluid and completely bled out in order for the master cylinder to function 100% properly.

So the question that I have is -

When you have a completely dry clutch actuating mechanism on these vehicles, how does on go about doing an initial bleed of the system until there is enough fluid in the system for the pressure plate to return the master cylinder piston back to its resting position? Any and all posts regarding this matter are welcome.
 
Have you pushed in on the new master with the same results?
 
No, I haven't yet received the new master cylinder. Should be in by this Friday. But I'm afraid to since it may not return to the resting position if there is no internal spring to return it.
 
I'd be amazed if there is no spring in a master. We have people posting here with leaking slaves all the time and nobody has had an issue with the master not having a built in return.
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OK so there SHOULD be a built in return. I'll check once the part comes in.

I just got the transaxle off today. I don't have any pictures but the flywheel shows what appears to be bluing on the mating surface. Last clutch I did the flywheel mating surface appeared glazed like a brake rotor does when it's time to change your brakes, which I know is normal. Due to the appearance of bluing on this car's flywheel mating surface, I assume that whoever drove the car before did some serious clutch riding. Hopefully a machine shop can resurface this flywheel.

Another interesting thing is how the throwout bearing works. It appears to rest in the fully outward (towards the pressure plate) position, and when you push it in by hand (towards the transaxle), then release it, it returns to the fully outward position. Do these throwout bearings ride on the pressure plate fingers at all times? Some sort of a self adjusting feature perhaps?

Also, why did Pontiac not make the input shaft long enough to be supported by a pilot bearing in the flywheel like every other clutch vehicle? I would think this would be hard on the input shaft bearings at least.
 
OK...now for the set back of a lifetime -

I ordered a Centerforce clutch kit from CarParts.com, part number MS361914 for the price of $240.16. On their site it was listed as a clutch for a 2002 Grand Am SE with 2.2L 4-cyl engine, which is the type of car that it is. I go to mount it up to the flywheel and wouldn't you know it, it wouldn't fit. Upon comparison to the original pressure plate, this revealed that it was the wrong part.

So I contacted the distributor, in which they confirmed that it was a mislabeled part, set me up with an RA number, and agreed to email a call tag and not charge a restock fee.

On a hunch I went to the Centerforce website. I selected my car, and it pulled up a Centerforce I clutch that listed for $728.13 on their site and it was part number CF331156...completely different from the clutch I had ordered. However, in the search window, I typed in the part number on the clutch box and it pulls up a clutch listed as "80-02 Buick, Cadi, Chevy, Jeep, Olds, Pontiac - Cars, Trucks & SUVs"!

So obviously the distributor listed this part going off of the listing information from Centerforce themselves.

I'm wondering...do I have a case here to get Centerforce to send me the correct clutch at the price of the mis-listed clutch?
 
I really doubt you will get anywhere with that but it's totally up to you to try.
 
As it turns out, Centerforce's website never stated that that clutch would specifically fit on a Grand Am model. CarParts.com assumed it did because CF listed it as 80-02 Pontiac (along with other brands) car, truck & SUV. However, they didn't take into account that they would never have used a truck/SUV clutch on something small like a 4-cyl engine.

In any case, we contacted the distributor (CarParts.com) for an RMA and shipped it back. But they wanted us to ship it back, then they refund our money (they refused to just send us the replacement part and refund the cost difference), then have us order the new part. We told them that this would set us back about 3 weeks and not only did we not have that kind of time but that it was unfair that we should have to do that seeing as how this whole mess was the result of their incorrect part listing. One CSR told us that once we get the part shipped and the tracking status changes to "In Transit" that they would give us an advanced credit for the part. So once the status changed to "In Transit", I contacted them and wouldn't you know it I got the response of "I'm sorry you were given incorrect information...blah blah blah". WTF???

So I told my sister to contact her bank and have the charges reversed to expedite the process so she could get her money back and we can get the correct part on order. The new part should be arriving today.

In this down time I did check out the replacement master cylinder, and yes it does in fact have a built in return spring so we should be able to bleed it using conventional methods.
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Sorry you are having such grief with the clutch. In hind sight perhaps working with a non-high performance manufacturer and a local store, such as NAPA, would have been better.
 
I had contacted local auto parts places and every one of them would have had to order the part, which is why I figured I'd just order it myself. In hindsight though, they probably would have ordered the correct part the first time.

In any event, we got the new clutch and it is the right kit. Got the clutch and slave cylinder installed and the transmission reinstalled. Now we just have to put the sub frame back up and get everything put back together.

When we pulled the transmission, I think most of the trans fluid came out of the transmission through the axle shaft holes. It looked pretty dirty anyway and figure with 75,000 miles on it it's probably due for a change so I plan to change it before the test drive. I've looked everywhere and cannot seem to find what fluid these manual transmissions are supposed to take. Does anyone here happen to know the correct fluid to use in the 2002 Grand Am manual trans? Does this require GM Synchromesh part no 12345349 or something compatible/equivalent to it?
 
So the subframe is installed, motor mounts tightened back down, starter installed, shift linkage hooked up, wiring, etc etc. Still have to reinstall the axle shafts...which brings me to my next question -

Does anyone know where to get replacement circlips on the gearbox end of the axle shafts? I don't want to reuse them (did that on another car of mine years ago and payed for it in the end) so if I can find replacements that would be awesome.
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OK everything is back together.

However, the master cylinder we were originally shipped as it turns out was the wrong one. We have since purchased the correct master cylinder and wouldn't you know it, it does NOT have an internal return spring, which makes mechanically bleeding a bone dry system damn near impossible.

Does anyone know if there is a procedure to bleed this system using either vacuum or pressure? There's just enough pressure currently to return the pedal back to the upright position, but hardly any resistance is felt and the clutch will not disengage.
 
Thanks for the link! I just went and purchased a Mityvac today so I'll be trying it here in the next couple of hours. Will post the results.
 
Well the Mityvac method worked like a charm. It took several times of repeating the steps, but once I was satisfied that I had all of the air out, I repeatedly pumped the clutch pedal and eventually it returned to the upright position and had positive pressure.

Started up the engine while the car was still on the jack stands, pressed the clutch in, put it in gear and the wheels did not turn until I released the clutch.

Took it for a nice test drive all around town and she drove like a charm. The clutch feels much smoother on release than I remember it being (it was already smooth to begin with) and shifting also felt easier than I remembered it being as well. The steering has a SLIGHT pull to it so a front end alignment will be done on it in the very near future, but other than that everything handled like a dream.

Thanks for all the help. I'm not sure why GM would use a clutch master cylinder that relies solely on positive hydraulic pressure alone to return it to the resting position as that makes it much more difficult to bleed it, but it is what it is.
______________________________
 
I also was surprised about that design, how much could a return spring add to the cost?
 
Jwilder said:
Hi all. New to the forum here.

My sister has a 2002 Grand Am SE that she purchased about 6 months ago. Everything on this car has been wonderful and it's super fun to drive...up until a week ago.

As she was leaving a shopping mall to return home, the clutch pedal stuck to the floor when coming out of the parking lot. Upon returning it to the upright position, I pressed it down again, and again it stuck to the floor.

Upon further inspection I saw clutch fluid leaking from the bottom inspection hole in the bell housing. Once I determined how these transmissions are designed with the release bearing and slave cylinder as one piece, I concluded that the slave cylinder had developed a major leak and required replacement.

I'm in the middle of removing the transmission at the moment and will be doing a full on clutch replacement to also include new slave and master cylinders. I also removed the clutch master cylinder thinking it might be that. When I pushed in on the piston in the clutch master cylinder, it does not self return. This leads me to conclude that the clutch master cylinder does not have its own return spring in it and thus relies on back pressure supplied by the pressure plate upon releasing the pedal to push fluid back up to the master cylinder in order to return its piston to the non-pressed position. This means that the system must be full of fluid and completely bled out in order for the master cylinder to function 100% properly.

So the question that I have is -

When you have a completely dry clutch actuating mechanism on these vehicles, how does on go about doing an initial bleed of the system until there is enough fluid in the system for the pressure plate to return the master cylinder piston back to its resting position? Any and all posts regarding this matter are welcome.
Click to expand...
For this you have to remove the transmission, and replace the slave cylinder. I had the same thing happen on my grand am. Do not buy a cheap unit on ebay. You will end up having to do the job over again. I purchased an OEM unit from Canada. It was around $80. But it's a good quality part. Unfortunately the only way to replace it is to remove the transmission...
 
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