Grand AM Starting Issue ITS NO PASS LOCK THIS IS A GOOD ONE!!! L@@K!!!

[omnis85]

I promise for those of you who like to solve problems this is a good one.
I BOUGHT THIS 1999 GA SE 2.4 Auto 129K A FEW WEEKS AGO BECAUSE THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN GOING WITH THE PREVIOUS OWNER AND HE COULDN'T DEAL WITH IT ANY MORE.
ANY GM TECHS OUT THERE OR PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD SIMILAR ISSUE?

Issue:
When first starting up from dead cold or after long cool down I live CT if that helps I would say 40 degrees and in garage over night, this car will need to have the key cycled to the on position minimum 2-3 times for it to even sputter until its warmed up and then I can start it with the key cycled 1 time most of the time. After many attempts like this I can get it to run normal but once I get it to run if I jab the throttle it will stall out cold or hot. I can gradually raise the rpm and hit rev limiter and as long as I don't let it go back to normal idle rpm say 6-800rpm I can then jab the throttle normally. OK it gets interesting. I have access the the GM Tech 2 computer and this car checks out with pass lock and all of its sensors like Cam,Crank,temp, map,tps etc.This car has NO check engine lights on, I purposely caused a light to come on by unplugging sensors to check. It is not the pass lock problems these cars have. Scenario 1: I start the car let it idle jab the throttle and it dies, ok now I put a NOID light in place of the 3 injector with the key still on as if it was running and I turn the key there is no signal until I turn key back then crank over. When I back probe the PINK wire on the ignition module it reads 12v with key on, If I reversed probes to the black wire I see 12V which indicates good ground. OK If I turn the car on and monitor the voltage at idle on the pink wire it reads 14.5 volts which would coincide with what the alternator is putting out? OK if I rev it, the meter will spike up to 200V's..IS THAT NORMAL? What is the value suppose to be? Isn't it just suppose to be what the charging system is putting out? This is supplied voltage right? Not what the coils are putting out? If this is NOT normal is it possible this the cars way of saying umm TOO much voltage and its shutting down? I have put a meter at the battery and it shows no more than 14Vs and then put the meter at the alternator and shows the same voltage. I am lost as to whats going on and if its not normal is it the ignition module? Read on for the tests I have done and the parts replaced.

Tests I have done with and without the GM Tech 2 computer to confirm
these items have checked out:
TPS
IAC
MAP
CAM
CRANK
VSS
Temp sensor
Compression 200+ across the 4 holes
O2 snesors
REMOVED 1ST O2 SENSOR TO RELIEVE BACK PRESSURE RULE OUT CAT CONVERTER
BATTERY VOLTAGE AND ALTERNATOR
passlock
BCM checks out

Parts Replaced recently
TPS--2 WEEKS AGO
MAP--1 YR AGO
IAC--1YR AGO
CAM--2 WEEKS AGO
CRANK--2 WEEKS AGO
VSS---2 WEEKS AGO
IGNITION MODULE--1YR AGO
COIL PACKS--1YR AGO
HOUSING--1YR AGO
RUBBER AND PLASTIC BOOTS--1YR AGO
TEMP SENSOR AND HOUSING---6 MONTHS AGO
O2 SENSORS--1YR AGO
FUEL PUMP--LAST WEEK
FUEL FILTER--LAST WEEK
INTAKE GASKET --2 WEEKS AGO
IGNITION SWITCH--YESTERDAY

ANY IDEAS OR TESTS I AM FORGETTING?

THANKS IN ADVANCE...

 

[melsg5]

Can you explain this statement, "this car will need to have the key cycled to the on position minimum 2-3 times for it to even sputter"? Are you saying the car starts but runs roughly or the starter does not engage? When you are jabbing the throttle what fuel pressure reading are you getting? You have checked the fuel pressure regulator?

 

[omnis85]

put key into ignition and turn to the "on" position 2-3 times but sometimes it will fire up at the first turn over. When I make that statement most techs will assume its fuel related, I have not checked the fuel pressure because you need a fitting to tap into the fuel rail but seeing how fuel pump, fuel filter and FPR have been replaced I cant imagine there is a blockage, when I removed the tank it was spotless inside with no sediments and sock was fairly clean but to answer NO and yes I see how important it is to confirm the pressure but just don't think so.

I am really curious to find out what the voltage values are suppose to be at the pink wire to ignition module other than just the key on... these readings im getting when rpms are up are seem to be way to high and erratic but no info I have found can tell me otherwise.

 

[melsg5]

Have you seen this series of articles

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/quad_coil_test/coil_test_quad_1.php

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[omnis85]

I did see those and somewhat helpful but when the car runs its hard to diagnose something thats "kind of" working...

I am happy to report as an update that I have finally FIXED IT!!! after 2 weeks. As mentioned the voltage to me seemed to be very high and erratic back probing the pink wire and thats exactly what was wrong with it. I bought a entire used set up for the ignition module and slapped it in. The car runs absolutely perfect and no cutting out. What a relief!!!

if you see these readings with these symptoms get a module....

 

[melsg5]

Glad to hear you resolved the problem, good luck.

 

[802]

Great read, glad you were able to figure it out! Quite the task of trouble shooting id imagine from the write up. What pointed you in the direction of the ignition module?

 

[Zimgxp]

Probably the high voltage readings on the ignition wire.

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