More questions about security and starting Grand Am 2004

[melsg5]

So you have a 2004 and it cranks but doesnt start?
You have determined you have fuel pressure?
Your security light is on or off?
You have spark?
Which engine?

 

[KYBoi6979]

So you have a 2004 and it cranks but doesnt start?
You have determined you have fuel pressure?
Your security light is on or off?
You have spark?
Which engine?

I don't know if you are referring to me but if you are then yes, I have a 2004 Grand AM and NO it doesn't start, I never stated that. I will explain like this my friend: Bought the car from a mechanic from my old job before I moved up, gave $500 for it, no rust, no dents, and interior excellent condition! About a month ago heating was going in and out so that told me time to change thermostat, (omg it was a pain in the a$$) Well this seemed to set off a domino effect of problems. Started having a leak somewhere, had 3 different auto mechanics tell me the water pump was fine just needed a gasket, also the hoses they said were in good shape. Well, omw to work light come on low coolant i stop let engine cool and see plain as day that the resev. was completely empty! long story short, i found weak spots in resev so i replaced it, 2 hoses off radiator had several very bad spots in the transition of the hoses, replaced all and guess what? YES, water pump was also bad. Replaced, and boom, no leak...Ok now a little back info (in between replacing parts) went to start car and nothing, only instrument lights, headlights ,etc. came on, no CRANK.. Checked fuses all good, checked terminals all good, gave a jump and started up.. Few days later same thing. A week later omw to work, stopped got gas and no CRANK, jumped this time took a little longer but started. # days later gas station below house stopped, came out and no CRANK whatsoever and nothing would help crank over and been that way every since..

To answer your above questions No Crank
fuel pump engages when turned to start position
security light goes out, does not stay on or blink
new wires and plugs, and yes have voltage to all
engine is the 6 cylinder 3.4
Grand AM 2004 SE, 210k miles

I have been in discussion with an auto mechanic off of JustAnswer.Com......I have been walked thru checking all fuses, volts, ect. I have replaced the starter and yes the old one was bad, failed 2 tests. Still no Crank...Long explanation short, The guy from JustAnswers.com, we stopped at checking voltage from under dash driver side PCM, the purple wire pin #23 to crank fuse under hood driver side 10A. The voltage on Crank fuse 10A was close to 10: Voltage from pin #23 purple wire read 1.2 Volts... The mechanic stated that was the problem, not enough volts going to Crank fuse 10A to replace the purple wire.
This is where I am at and haven't replaced wire yet due to weather. I am going to replace today and will update soon as I can get I can get it changed out. I have tested the ignition relay under hood and yes when i hook power to it the relay engages...I hope I have explained well enough and in good enough detail. I am a green horn when it comes to any of this however I'm not stupid either and can follow any direction to the T! This shit honestly intrigues me cause i look at it s a challenge. Thank you very much for noticing my post. Any further instruction or ideas are welcome. I will say that I have tried finding complete wiring diagrams for this car but no avail, all the ones i find by the time i enlarge them enough to see it blurs everything to where you can't read them...Thank you very much if you can help, much appreciated....PS...I am on eastern time (lexington,KY)

 

[melsg5]

You said it started with a jump so why are you going through all this diagnosis?
What is the battery voltage?
Have you load tested the battery?
Have you carefully looked at both ends of the battery cables especially under the cable ends to see if they are corroded?

 

[KYBoi6979]

You said it started with a jump so why are you going through all this diagnosis?
What is the battery voltage?
Have you load tested the battery?
Have you carefully looked at both ends of the battery cables especially under the cable ends to see if they are corroded?

I stated that the car did start by jumping it in the beginning, however ,i stated all the obvious afterwards. I'm not on this site to have a war of words, I am on here looking for advice. I have clearly stated from beginning to end what all I HAVE DONE TO THIS DATE! Unlike all these other posts I have read that don't even come close to how I have explained my situation, they all are the same, "My car won't start help please" with no knowledge of anything other than they need help. I am in no ways being rude nor a smartass, but twice now you have insulted my intelligence by asking the same repeated questions ok. I do understand how aggravating it may be to have your knowledge trying to help others when in fact most don't even get it, in other words just want help but don't put any effort forward to their needs....I am not that person, just want that set straight, so now moving forward.....

If you want to help me out then by all means that is greatly appreciated if not, then I will move on! I am exhausted to no other, the day after this ice storm i laid outside in the cold n ice for nearly 8 hours taking off and replacing a starter to starting my voltage tests on all the above. I stated clearly that I have been talking with an expert (supposedly) off the sight WWW.JUSTANSWERS.COM. That mechanic has been texting me info starting with the basics: Battery charged, battery volts, connectors, the starter voltage, starter solenoid volts, etc......
That mechanic, after all of these basic common sense tests, came to conclusion that the purple wire running from the PCM #23 pin under dash drivers side needed replaced running to crank 10a fuse under hood driver side fuse box. The voltage off of the crank 10a fuse under hood driver side fuse box read 10.volts and the purple wire pin #23 running from the PCM under dash driver side voltage read 1.2 volts.....I tested the relays under hood driver side fuse box and all are good! This is where I am at to date 02/16/2021 1:59 pm east.

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[KYBoi6979]

You said it started with a jump so why are you going through all this diagnosis?
What is the battery voltage?
Have you load tested the battery?
Have you carefully looked at both ends of the battery cables especially under the cable ends to see if they are corroded?

My apologies from yesterday man, I was highly upset after this...UPDATE: Upon further researching (thank god I did) I do not need the wiring diagram. I re-traced all of my steps; put new posts on the battery, the battery tested good @Advanced Auto but also got re-charged > crank amps were 600 now with a full charge the crank amps are over 700> tested new starter in the start position volts 12.4> retested the PCM pin #23 that runs to the crank fuse and it now tests 12.4...This is where I am at now due to a misguided wire diagram a mechanic gave me. Read above posts and you will see the problem I am having, A NO CRANK ISSUE....Please help if you have any idea on what I need to do from this point...

 

[KYBoi6979]

My guess at this point is that when your probing pin 87 from the 40 amp fuse and not finding power, it is possible your not getting a good connection to the test light or meter.

Check for power at both sides of the fuse while someone is cranking the starter over for you. make sure the power is not disappearing under cranking condition.

If the voltage is present at the fuse on both sides of the fuse follow the wire to the next connector in line ( trace the wire from the fuse to the starter relay ) inspect any connector.

Pretty much you cannot have power to pin 30 without it coming from pin 87 unless you are working from the wrong wiring diagram.

Have you checked the fuse labeled Crank the 10 amp fuse located under the hood in position 54 it supplies the PCM with voltage during cranking.

again check this fuse on both sides of the fuse while someone is cranking the starter over for you.

I am thinking if the ignition switch drops the power to this fuse intermittently the PCM will not function to allow cranking. if you do have power during cranking the PCM may have a bad driver circuit as the tech suggested.

If it does drop power you may just be looking at a worn ignition switch.

So double check the power from the 40 amp fuse and check the power from the 10 amp fuse and let us know what you find

PLEASE HELP ME>>>>>>
About a month ago heating was going in and out so that told me time to change thermostat, (omg it was a pain in the a$$) Well this seemed to set off a domino effect of problems. Started having a leak somewhere, had 3 different auto mechanics tell me the water pump was fine just needed a gasket, also the hoses they said were in good shape. Well, omw to work light come on low coolant i stop let engine cool and see plain as day that the resev. was completely empty! long story short, i found weak spots in resev so i replaced it, 2 hoses off radiator had several very bad spots in the transition of the hoses, replaced all and guess what? YES, water pump was also bad. Replaced, and boom, no leak...Ok now a little back info (in between replacing parts) went to start car and nothing, only instrument lights, headlights ,etc. came on, no CRANK.. Checked fuses all good, checked terminals all good, gave a jump and started up.. Few days later same thing. A week later omw to work, stopped got gas and no CRANK, jumped this time took a little longer but started. # days later gas station below house stopped, came out and no CRANK whatsoever and nothing would help crank over and been that way every since..

To answer your above questions No Crank
fuel pump engages when turned to start position
security light goes out, does not stay on or blink
new wires and plugs, and yes have voltage to all
engine is the 6 cylinder 3.4
Grand AM 2004 SE, 210k miles

I have been in discussion with an auto mechanic off of JustAnswer.Com......I have been walked thru checking all fuses, volts, ect. I have replaced the starter and yes the old one was bad, failed 2 tests. Still no Crank...Long explanation short, The guy from JustAnswers.com, we stopped at checking voltage from under dash driver side PCM, the purple wire pin #23 to crank fuse under hood driver side 10A. The voltage on Crank fuse 10A was close to 10: Voltage from pin #23 purple wire read 1.2 Volts... The mechanic stated that was the problem, not enough volts going to Crank fuse 10A to replace the purple wire.
This is where I am at and haven't replaced wire yet due to weather. I am going to replace today and will update soon as I can get I can get it changed out. I have tested the ignition relay under hood and yes when i hook power to it the relay engages...I hope I have explained well enough and in good enough detail. I am a green horn when it comes to any of this however I'm not stupid either and can follow any direction to the T! This shit honestly intrigues me cause i look at it s a challenge. Thank you very much for noticing my post. Any further instruction or ideas are welcome. I will say that I have tried finding complete wiring diagrams for this car but no avail, all the ones i find by the time i enlarge them enough to see it blurs everything to where you can't read them...Thank you very much if you can help, much appreciated....PS...I am on eastern time (lexington,KY)

<<<<<<<UPDATE>>>>>>>pin #23 from pcm to crank 10a use IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!! I have reassembled all of this and retraced the purple wire and retested it and it read volts 12.4 from the pcm at the start position....I do not know where to go from here......

 

[melsg5]

Have you tried jumping the starter solenoid? I know it's a new starter.

 

[melsg5]

Looking at the owners manual, you have a starter relay in the engine compartment box, number 11, see if there is an identical relay in the box and temporarily swap them.

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[KYBoi6979]

Have you tried jumping the starter solenoid? I know it's a new starter.

No sir I haven't

 

[KYBoi6979]

Looking at the owners manual, you have a starter relay in the engine compartment box, number 11, see if there is an identical relay in the box and temporarily swap them.

Yes, there are 2 side by side identical. The guy that was helping me, we tried that as well, however, i just got everything assembled back together while i had the chance because of this weather and I hate not having a garage. My plan is if it doesn't snow to much is to start over from the drawing board because once i got all fuses put back in box, assembling the box itself, battery holster, grounds, under dash driver side, etc., just to check for a miracle, I noticed when I put key in the ON position not Starting that the security light was on and stayed solid.. I have no clue, but I will follow your lead if there is anything you want to help guide me with and I can keep you updated as I follow your instructions and what all I need to do from GO......Thank you very much man

 

[melsg5]

If the security light wasnt on solid before everything was disassembled it sounds like the system no longer recognizes the key and a relearn may be required.

 

[KYBoi6979]

If the security light wasnt on solid before everything was disassembled it sounds like the system no longer recognizes the key and a relearn may be required.

Below I have attached 3 photos> 2 of which are of key being in the ON position, taken before I put everything back together:<<<<<NOTICE>>>>>NO Security Light on? Last night I hooked the OBD2 up to it and *****NO CODES***** showed, yet the security light remained solid. I didn't get a pic of light staying on but have no reason to tease about it, and I turned key off 10-15 sec intervals then switch back to the ON position and Security Light stayed solid. I will also attach the photos of the OBD2 ok.....Thanks man

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[KYBoi6979]

Below I have attached 3 photos> 2 of which are of key being in the ON position, taken before I put everything back together:<<<<<NOTICE>>>>>NO Security Light on? Last night I hooked the OBD2 up to it and *****NO CODES***** showed, yet the security light remained solid. I didn't get a pic of light staying on but have no reason to tease about it, and I turned key off 10-15 sec intervals then switch back to the ON position and Security Light stayed solid. I will also attach the photos of the OBD2 ok.....Thanks manView attachment 5580View attachment 5581View attachment 5582View attachment 5583View attachment 5584View attachment 5585View attachment 5586View attachment 5587View attachment 5588

Would this be the correct way to do this key relearn? Mine is Passlock

GM Security Relearn Procedure - Module Experts

moduleexperts.com

 

[melsg5]

The Passlock section of the document is correct.

 

[KYBoi6979]

The Passlock section of the document is correct.

Okay, thank you...I am getting ready to go out here and start clearing snow so I can get to it. Will update you soon as I can.....

 

[KYBoi6979]

The Passlock section of the document is correct.

<<<<<<<UPDATE>>>>>>>>UPDATE>>>>>>>>UPDATE>>>>>>
After re-checking every connection and every fuse before hooking battery back up. Okay, upon connecting battery, i was preparing for the key relearn, reading directions and the very first step to this is to turn the to START, then release to the ON position and wait 10 min>>>> Well I never made it past this step because when i turned the key to the start position the car CRANKED OVER!!! YES IT CRANKED OVER,<<<<<HOWEVER>>>>> the starter got stuck even after turning ignition to the off position, actually had to remove the positive battery terminal to cease the STARTER>>>>>>looking up videos now on this matter......

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[melsg5]

You have a bad starter solenoid?
The new starter is rebuilt or new?
If it happens again have hammer handy and hit the solenoid if you can reach it.

 

[KYBoi6979]

You have a bad starter solenoid?
The new starter is rebuilt or new?
If it happens again have hammer handy and hit the solenoid if you can reach it.

I don't know if the solenoid is bad or not.
I bought the starter at Advance Auto>>Rebuilt>>>>Just came from there to confirm it...
and no one knows where this light green colored wire goes lol...ok i will hit it with hammer if it does it again...

 

[melsg5]

I don't know if the solenoid is bad or not.
I bought the starter at Advance Auto>>Rebuilt>>>>Just came from there to confirm it...
and no one knows where this light green colored wire goes lol...ok i will hit it with hammer if it does it again...

The post on the other side of the solenoid is empty, did it have a wire on it?
Did you mix up the two small wires and fail to connect the green one?

 

[melsg5]

Does the hole in that unconnected wire match the size of the small studs on the solenoid or the large main battery stud?