Questions about 80 firebird?

ZombiePopper

ZombiePopper

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Hey guys,
Just joined and I'm contemplating purchasing a fairly clean 80 firebird, but I have a few questions that I figured I'd ask you experts. I'm not REAL familiar with pontiacs, just the basics, I'm a mopar guy.
-But I'm not a fan of the 77-82(?) (sorry) front end, I MUCH prefer the 70-76, can a swap be done? Is it the entire front clip that has to be swapped?
-is there aftermarket support, namely, pro touring parts available for an 80?
-who makes headers for a poncho 455 in an 80?
Thanks
 
1) Alright, there are a couple things first to get sorted out. The 2nd gen Trans am/Firebird had 4 different models. 1970-73, 74-76, 77-78, and 79-81. The hoods from 1970-76 will interchange, and 77-81 will interchange. Rear bumpers and tail lamps are different, interior seats different. 1970-74 used a different rear window compared to 75-81. Same thing with the doors. I have seen people swap the front end components to make a `cloned` car. You would need ( as far as I know), a different hood, front bumper, front fenders, radiator core support, different mounts, headlights. (Basically entire front clip, yes)

2) Many of the suspension parts IIRC, are the same for 1970-81. Much aftermarket for suspension, rims, power train, etc..

3) You will have a hard time finding headers for 455 in the `80 model. Mainly because that year did not come factory with that engine. In 1979 however, they had a 400 Pontiac, which on the outside diameters are exactly the same. Go to Summitracing.com and for your car go with 1979, with the 400 motor. (This is exactly the same as 1980 with 455, but please dont quote me. I dont want to be responsible for you ordering a wrong set) I like hooker headers personally. To each their own, but I recommend ceramic coated headers strongly.

These cars had fairly good handling straight from factory and would not need much to make a great track car. If you are putting out lots of power, I would look into getting subframe connecters.

Hopefully I can help for now with what I can. I will also let others comment on this as well, because surely they would have more years of experience than I do.

-Rylen.
 
Thanks Rylen, good info!
I really like the looks of the 70-73, and 74-76 front ends, as opposed to the 77-78 and 79-81 (not a fan)
I knew there were differences between those those years but didn't know if they'd swap onto an 80.
Great idea on the headers for a 400 in a 79, I would not have thought about that.
I've heard they handle pretty good from the get-go, but I'd like to use the car on some track days, road courses etc. so I wanted to "update" the braking, suspension. I've been doing some searching and it seems there's a few companies out there, anyone have recommendations or maybe, who to avoid?
Thanks
 
For brakes I've had good luck with SSBC.
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I've heard good things about SSBC.

Couple dumb questions about pontiac;
This firebird I'm looking at has no fender "scoops", is it easier to buy fenders with them, or cut and weld them (scoops) on?

Also, pontiac big blocks; what interchanges? 326-455?
I only ask because mopar big blocks have B and RB (wedge) parts that don't interchange, even though they're all big blocks.
Plus mopar small block and big blocks starters interchange.
Any info, or tips?
 
Firebirds came with no fender scoops. Trans am did come with them. It would be easier to, IMO, to buy new fenders. The scoops are plastic, these scoops bolt onto the fender where there is a cut out for them. Also there is a bracket behind where they are cut out to be able to bolt them on.

Here is a page for all the years of the different components that will interchange. http://www.wallaceracing.com/interchange.htm

Stay away from the Pontiac 301 v8, very bad motor. Even the turbo 301 from 1980 and 81 were terrible motors. It is essentially the same cost to build a 350 BBP, as it does a 455 BBP. Because of all the parts are the same other that different measurements like crankshaft mains, bore, stroke, etc.. and cylinder heads (however you can still interchange them if the cc gives you the correct comp. ratio. For example: 350 heads on 400, or 400 heads on 455) . 455 will be your best option if you can find one. Of course if you to plan to build yours up I would look into making the most low-mid range torque. Pontiacs make huge torque and for the street, torque is going to move you the farthest. Comp cam 262 Xtreme energy is a great street cam. It is giving me the most torque in the low RPM. I think MY 400 in going to put around 450 max trq at 2000 RPM.

Anything else that you have concerns about? Just ask, no such thing as a dumb question. Everyone is here to learn.

-Rylen.
 
I wasn't aware of the 301 being a motor to avoid, what was the issue with them? (I know the 403 (olds) had windowed mains that COULD be a potential prob.

I've read that the poncho 455 (2 bolt main not the SD or HO blocks) is a low rpm motor that wouldn't survive long under hi rpm use, is that correct?
Something else I wasn't aware of, is the pontiac 350 is a big block (?) I've learned a few things today.
I figured I'd build it (mild build low-mid range) as I drive it.
Good info on the cam! Someone recommended the Sciencam cams, but I'm not familiar with them (?)
I didn't know the fender scoops were plastic lol duh!
Are the trans am fender "flairs" (? Not sure what they're called) bolt on, or bonded on?
Thanks again for all the info, I'm being a sponge trying to soak up all the info I can.
 
All the Pontiac engines 326-455 had the same exterior dimensions. Pontiac engine size is best described as a 'medium' block lol.

You don't want to waste any $$$ on the 301, unless you are wanting a numbers matching pace car. They were built to save weight and are not conducive to high power.
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Technically, Pontiac never had a big block or small block motor. They are a very large motor so some may refer them to as a big block. However, I believe all the v8 motors pontiac made were exact same on the outside as far as dimensions.

Unfortunately in my case, I have a numbers 301T 1980 Pace car. I will save this motor for a rebuild later simply because it will be worth a few $$ in years to come. If you found a 301 in a junkyard I would stay away, but if it is a numbers matcher, it might be worth while and pay off in the end.

Pontiacs also did not like high RPM. I believe rev limit is 4500-5000. IF you reuse the stock rods, make sure to change the con-rods bolts for a set of ARP bolts. Better than stock but would not want much higher RPM. The stock rods did not like RPM, I have heard a lot of people switching to H beams rods by eagle or scat.

Stock Pontiac cranks can definitely handle the power unless you wanted a stroker motor. I remember a person telling me that they had to put engines through the crusher and only the pontiac motors gave the machine troubles because of the crankshaft. EXCEPT for the 301 which had a very odd crankshaft with only 2 counterweights.
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx71/buickbilly/301_pontiac_04.jpg ---- Top is regular Pontiac crank, bottom is the 301. You can see why.

If you are talking about the flairs in front of the wheels. They have a seal between the paint on the body and the flair, but IIRC they have screws on the back (Part facing inside the wheel-well) to hold them on.

-Rylen.
 
Wow huge difference between those cranks. The 301 looks positively naked, and looks as if it will break if you touch it.

I've had no problems with my Pontiac engines over the years if I keep the rev's below ~5300. It's when I push it over 5500 that I've spun bearings. Dang RA IV cams, just wanted to keep revving. My engines would usually live about 2 years, back in the '90s. These being 400s.
 
Yeah I can see the issue with that 301 crank it's very odd looking for a crank lol.
If your car is a #'s turbo pace car I can see why you're stuck with it.
Medium block, that's pretty good, I always thought BB and SB had to do with deck height(?)
I was actually looking for a TA 70-76 when I came across this 80, it starts, runs and drives and is super clean, rust free and the interior is almost perfect, (console, floor shift auto) plus it already has a 455/400 auto transplanted into it (with AC, of course PS, PB) which is the reason I've been looking hard at it. (Not to mention, the guy is including a shaker/hood set-up)
The downside is; I'd want to install fender flairs, front fenders with scoops and front spoiler of a TA, and of course it wouldn't an actual TA...so I'm conflicted about it
 
We currently own an 80 Trans am, but last winter we had a 1980 firebird esprit. What we were going to do is change the firebird into a trans am. Firebirds are usually a bit cheaper and can be more plentiful depending on your area.

Please be aware that people can hide the rust on these cars. Problem areas on these cars are floor pans, usually driver side door, rust along trunk lid where spoiler goes, and the dog legs between the door and rear wheel wells. It sounds like the car is fairly solid so I wouldn`t worry about it too much. Atleast in my area, cars of these years are completely full of rust and hard to find a good core. (Reason why we had to drive 2,000 total to pick up our car)

PS: *IF* you could find a 70-73 Trans am, they go for larger numbers than the later models. Usually why a few people will clone them. The early models are quite rare and getting hard to find. I would suggest, what would you really want to do with the car? I would personalize it to how you like. Pontiac motors are also fairly expensive to build up comparing to some other companies, sounds like a good deal on the car if you ask me.
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Actually, that's a good question, I'm debating an LS motor/trans swap, but I wouldn't be able to run a shaker plus I'm not sure how difficult that swap would be(?)
 
My vote, for the gen 2 Firebirds, is a natural Pontiac engine, and not an LSx swap.

Pontiac engines are not more expensive, or barely more, to build than other makes.
 
I tend to agree, I like to keep the same brand power plants in the same brands if vehicles, just personal preference.
Has anyone ran EFI (like FAST etc) on a poncho motor and been able to retain the shaker?
I'm coming from mopars, talk about pricey to rebuild sheesh, so hopefully a pontiac motor is cheaper than a mopar to rebuild lol.
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1980Esprit said:
In my particular area in Canada I should say, they are more expensive to build.
Click to expand...

Well, up in Canada, eh, it may be more expensive. Especially seeing how GTOs from the '60s had big block Chevy power, and I think all the Pontiacs had Chevy engines back then. So, yeah, it may be more $$$ in Canada.

ZombiePopper said:
I tend to agree, I like to keep the same brand power plants in the same brands if vehicles, just personal preference.
Has anyone ran EFI (like FAST etc) on a poncho motor and been able to retain the shaker?
I'm coming from mopars, talk about pricey to rebuild sheesh, so hopefully a pontiac motor is cheaper than a mopar to rebuild lol.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you can utilize the FAST EFI, but I think you can use a Holley throttle body fuel injection system, since they are like a 4 bbl carb, and still use the shaker. They should bolt up to a standard square bore intake.
 
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