Sunfire ABS problem

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electrichorseman

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Hi,
I'm new to the board and this is my first post.

I have a 1997 Sunfire, 2.2L, 57,000 miles (my dads car, he hasn't driven in years) and there's a problem with the ABS. When I apply the brakes while driving at 10 MPH or more I hear the ABS solenoid click on and off. The ABS light does not light up nor are there any ABS codes on the OBDII scanner. I removed and cleaned the front wheel speed sensors, which didn't help. The car has been sitting for a few years.

Does anyone have any troubleshoot suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ken C.
New Jersey
 
How do you know the noise is coming from the ABS solenoid since you hear it only when driving?
are there any other symptoms of a problem with the ABS system?
You are sure your OBDII scanner reads ABS codes?
 
melsg5 said:
How do you know the noise is coming from the ABS solenoid since you hear it only when driving?
are there any other symptoms of a problem with the ABS system?
You are sure your OBDII scanner reads ABS codes?
Click to expand...


The sound is coming from the firewall, behind the instrument cluster. In the engine compartment. This is the location where the vacuum booster/ master cylinder/ ABS module is. I'm I wrong to assume it's ABS?
 
well if you have no brake issues I would think the noise is from something else, you are sure it is not the brake pedal switch making the noise?
______________________________
 
melsg5 said:
well if you have no brake issues I would think the noise is from something else, you are sure it is not the brake pedal switch making the noise?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it's a solenoid clicking on and off. That's why I thought it was the ABS module engaging.
 
does your scanner read ABS codes?
are you having any braking issues?
have you tried locking up the wheels to see if the ABS works?
 
melsg5 said:
does your scanner read ABS codes?
are you having any braking issues?
have you tried locking up the wheels to see if the ABS works?
Click to expand...

Yes, my OBDII scanner has ABS and a manufacturer specific (GM) setting. There are no codes at all.

The vehicle has no breaking issues. I haven't tried panic stops. I'll try that next. I may try to take a video from the cabin and see if the sound is picked up. If it's clear enough I'll post it on You Tube and place the link here.
 
OK that clarifies the issue. I originally thought you heard a single click not a constant click. I would try supporting the front of the car on jack stands and while someone sits in the car working the gas and brake you confirm that the noise is actually coming from the ABS module. Make sure the brake calipers are tight and the ABS sensors and reluctor ring are clean and undamaged. This link gives additional information on using a scan tool even if no light is on.
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/diagnosing-wheel-speed-sensors/
 
melsg5 said:
OK that clarifies the issue. I originally thought you heard a single click not a constant click. I would try supporting the front of the car on jack stands and while someone sits in the car working the gas and brake you confirm that the noise is actually coming from the ABS module. Make sure the brake calipers are tight and the ABS sensors and reluctor ring are clean and undamaged. This link gives additional information on using a scan tool even if no light is on.
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/diagnosing-wheel-speed-sensors/
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll try this first chance I get. I'll let you know how I do.
 
melsg5 said:
OK that clarifies the issue. I originally thought you heard a single click not a constant click. I would try supporting the front of the car on jack stands and while someone sits in the car working the gas and brake you confirm that the noise is actually coming from the ABS module. Make sure the brake calipers are tight and the ABS sensors and reluctor ring are clean and undamaged. This link gives additional information on using a scan tool even if no light is on.
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/diagnosing-wheel-speed-sensors/
Click to expand...
OK,
I jacked up the front end, brought the speedo up to 25 or 30 MPH and applied the brakes several times. It does NOT make the clicking sound. Back when I first started trouble shooting this I removed all four wheels, inspected and cleaned the brake calipers and drums. Used brake parts cleaner on all four brake assemblies. Plenty of meat on all the pads and shoes. I removed and cleaned both front wheel speed sensors and did my best to clean the tooth wheel. Any idea what to try next? Could it be a rear wheel hub issue? The car did sit for about 4 or 5 years.
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if you hear the noise from the front cannt see how it could be rear hub. If you go at a slow speed in a parking lot with wheel fully turned one way and then the other way do you hear the noise without stepping on the brakes? Any tears in the U-joint boots?
 
melsg5 said:
if you hear the noise from the front cannt see how it could be rear hub. If you go at a slow speed in a parking lot with wheel fully turned one way and then the other way do you hear the noise without stepping on the brakes? Any tears in the U-joint boots?
Click to expand...

I didn't see any problems with the u-joint boots. I'll try the turning test tomorrow.
 
you feel no play in any of the wheel bearings?
 
Slowly narrowing down the problem.

I pulled the ABS relay from the fuse box (ABS warning light came on) and the clicking stopped. So there's no doubt the sound is the ABS module kicking on and off. I checked the rear wheels for play and they feel tight to me. There's also a nasty sound coming from the passenger side of the engine compartment. Could be the water pump crying for help. I'm bringing it to a GM dealer for an evaluation. If it didn't have under 60,000 miles I wouldn't bother trying to fix it. It makes a good get around car. I like the way the back seat folds down. I'll post more after the trip to the dealer. There's also a nasty sound coming from the passenger side of the engine compartment. Could be the water pump crying for help.
______________________________
 
good luck and let us know how it goes
 
Well I brought the car to the Chevy dealer. Good news and bad news...
I explained to the service mgr that I had a problem with the ABS. She said that due to the age of the vehicle, low mileage and lack of service record that they would rather do an multipoint safety inspection ($130.00). When I went to pick the car up I was told that the vehicle was not worth fixing (which I'm not buying).

They said that there were five codes on the ABS...
C1216
C1262
C1265
C1276
C1278

For this reason they didn't want to "waste my money" troubleshooting a car that wasn't worth fixing (B.S.) Let's review the codes one at a time...

C1216... "Brake Control Relay Coil Circuit Open"
I caused this one. In order to stop the ABS system from kicking in every time I stepped on the brakes I pulled the relay out.

C1262... "RF ABS Motor Circuit Shorted to Ground"
I assume this is referring to the cable or the sensor itself for the right front wheel.

C1265... "Rear ABS Motor Circuit Shorted to Ground"
Are they referring to the cable going to the rear wheel speed sensors?

C1276... "LF Solenoid Circuit Open or Short to Ground"
C1278... "RF Solenoid Circuit Open or Shorted to Ground"
Are these referring to when I pulled the ABS relay and "opened" the circuits?

In a previous post I mentioned that my code scanner (the Craftsman version of the Innova model 3100i) had ABS capability. When I plug the scanner in it can't connect to the ABS module. I've been back and forth e-mailing the Innova product support team about this, so far nothing conclusive.

Ken C
 
Last edited:
why would you bring in a car for diagnosis without replacing a critical part of the system you want them to check, the relay? I would be surprised if they would pull a new relay out of stock just to test your system.
there are resistance checks you can perform on each one of the wheel sensors to see if they or the cable going to them has failed. Below is one of many articles on checking
http://www.underhoodservice.com/wheel-speed-sensor-diagnostics-for-meters-and-scopes/
 
melsg5 said:
why would you bring in a car for diagnosis without replacing a critical part of the system you want them to check, the relay? I would be surprised if they would pull a new relay out of stock just to test your system.
there are resistance checks you can perform on each one of the wheel sensors to see if they or the cable going to them has failed. Below is one of many articles on checking
http://www.underhoodservice.com/wheel-speed-sensor-diagnostics-for-meters-and-scopes/
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't include this in the post...
I replaced the relay when I brought it in for the service. I assume the ECM showed the stored codes which were generated when I pulled the relay out.
 
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